Featured Faith? Where does it come from?

Again, what those verses do not say is that he imposes faith on someone who was not otherwise looking for it. I will posit Christ is the author because he shed His blood on the Cross. That is what authorship is referring to.

I do not see his posts. If you continue to re-post his stuff when engaging me I will not respond to them.

 

Hi again Brother DHK,

Thanks for further elaborating on your beliefs. I disagree as I believe both the "inner man" and "outward man" each have a mind, the former the "mind of Christ", the latter the "carnal mind". There are two actual men (one fleshly, one spiritual) in one vessel. This is seen by statements of Paul in Romans 7:18, " For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing", here Paul clearly identifies the "I" as being the outward man which he calls " my flesh" that in it "dwelleth no good thing" , but then he continues four verses later and states, "22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man" (Romans 7:22). Here notice Paul also identifies himself with an "I", but this time instead of the flesh mentions an "inward man" that delights "in the law of God", therefore this cannot be the same "I" as he identified in verse 18 as the flesh because in the flesh he stated "dwelleth no good thing", therefore how could the flesh "delight in the law of God"? There are two separate entities in one earthly vessel after regeneration. Also, have you ever heard of two men who share one mind, but if there is only one mind as you contend, but yet an "inner man" and "outward man", then this is what you must believe?

I do agree there is a warfare between the "inner man" and "outward man" ( as is described in Romans 7), however I do not use the term two natures because conveys an impossible idea that the sinner is born again and thus partakes of the Divine nature, retaining his old nature; and these two natures in one man war each against the other because Christ said, "Every kingdom divided against itself, is brought to desolation: and every city or house divided against itself, shall not stand.". It would certainly seem from this verse, that a man divided against himself would be of similar character; in other words he would be unable to be of any separate personality; and I might well ask in what possible manner such an organism could exist; one half natural, earthy; the other half, spiritual, heavenly?

At the new birth, there does not come to exist two natures, but rather two men, spirit born of Spirit; not flesh (sinner) born of Spirit. The old man (or natural man) is born after flesh from Adam, the new man is born after the Spirit from Christ, As Jesus said, "6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:6)

Do you believe the mind of the flesh is changed after one becomes born again, if so how?

 

Brother Rev,

Hello. If faith is not given by God to those upon becoming born again, why then does Paul thank God for that the Thessalonians receiving the gospel when he preached it to them, "13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe." (1 Thess 2:13) Why thank God for them receiving it if they did it of their own power and will, that would not make sense, would it?

 

I believer the "I" is the same person. Paul is describing his struggle, as a saved person, dealing with the two natures every believer has. We have a sin nature and a new nature. We decide which one we will submit to. We have only one mind (brain). It is our will (mind) that must decide.

There are many examples that could be given. I came on BB because I enjoy it. But as I open up my computer I am tempted by all kinds of advertisements--whether in my junk mail or in other places. It would be very easy by a click of the mouse to enter into some immoral site, and then into a porn site. What do I do? Give into that which edifying or that which is destructive to the soul. That decision is mine, and made by me, I have one mind. I still have that old nature which I could give into.

What did Jesus say:
Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
--The heart is the mind. We must choose to allow the mind of Christ to operate in our lives or give into our old nature, to allow our mind to rule over it instead of the mind of Christ.

I believe nature is a better word because we can never get rid of that adamic nature until our bodies are fully redeemed. "We wait for the redemption of our bodies." We are not perfect; we still sin. We still give into that old nature. It is a decision of the mind. We may have a new nature but the old nature still remains. However, there remains but one mind but which we can make the decision to live by and or choose to live by.

Our mind is part of out body. It is our brain, physically speaking. Spiritually speaking it is made alive to spiritually alive. There is a spiritual part to the mind, or more accurately it is the spirit, which animals do not have. That is what comes alive. But the spirit is still connected to the mind in some way. Through the spirit we worship God as we could not before. We are new creatures in Christ. The old still is there. The spirit has been quickened or made alive. But the mind is one. It must decide which nature to give into. If everything was automatic Paul would not have to write such chapters as Ephesians 4 and 5.

 

I am coming to the party late but the fact is even the unsaved person has faith. You believe if you put a key in the ignition and turn it the vehicle will start, you believe if you flick the light switch light will come on and you believe when you sit in a chair it will hold your volume of weight and not collapse. So keep in mind that there is the faith we were born with and that faith can be exercised to believe in God. Ephesians 2:8-9


There is also the faith that grows in its trust in God and this growth is based on what we hear and see as a believer. I had to exercise faith to give a little when I was first saved but as I have grown in Christ I now exercise faith to give much more than I did in the beginning.


When we walk in the spirit our faith grow greater in relation to our trust in how great our God is. My God is great and greatly to be praised therefore I please him by exercising greater faith as I grow in Christ. As other see my faith it also encourages them to grow in faith as well hence my community of believers is affected and encouraged by the faith that I live by.


Maybe I am over simplifying it but faith begets greater faith. Is this not what Hebrews 12:1 is telling us? That those who lived by faith in their era encourage us to live by faith in ours and the recipients of their faith were those who saw them live by faith “therefor seeing we also” are compassed about by so great a cloud of witnesses (those who live around us) … run the race set before us … looking to Jesus or putting our faith in Jesus.


thjplgvp

 

Brother Tom,

Why would you deny that we who are created in the image of God not be able to use the faith he hath given us to respond to the gospel he has told us to obey? Have you also fallen into the camp that believes you must be regenerated to be regenerated by faith? Has your education carried you so far abroad that you no longer believe that a man can respond by faith to the gospel call to salvation? Do you now believe that God must not only come and die and shed his blood and ascend to heaven that he must also be our conscience and our faith because he failed to create us with enough faith to be saved?

This may anger you but my intent is to ask you if your doctrines have changed since I knew you. To my knowledge you preached the gospel and expected that people would come to Christ through the simple message exercising the faith they had in the finished work of Christ. Do you now not believe that same simple truth whereby you were saved and those people you pastored were saved?

thhjplgvp

 

No walking in the Spirit is automatic as He enables one by giving them both the "will" and the "do" by working in you, "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure" (Philippians 2:12-13). As I think you rightly pointed out in one of our prior exchanges this verse is talking about our sanctification. So is this one, "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:" (Philippians 1:6). God wrote the scriptures however to believers because unlike in regeneration, God uses means such as the reading of the scripture and prayer to accomplish our sanctification, but it is God who gives us the will to do these things as Jesus declared, "for without me ye can do nothing." (John 15:5). This would include having faith. I guess you believe faith is "nothing", otherwise you contradict this verse by saying a man by his will can make a decision to exercise his faith (not God given faith) to trust in Christ as their Savior?

 

God gives every person a measure of knowledge of Him, and therefore of faith.

Romans 1:19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

It's what people do with that faith, nurtured and led by the Holy Spirit, that determines if they have saving faith.

Some people totally reject God, and God makes them reprobate, or unable to have faith:
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge,

Others never come to saving faith.

 

Amen brother ! And Paul said "in me that is in my flesh dwelleth no good thing", so how do you get a good fruit from a bad tree? "18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." (Matthew 7:18). Brother DHK must believe men are "good" trees (to use Christ's analogy) if they can bring forth the good fruit of putting faith in Christ by their own decision of their will.

 

Let's consider the verse more carefully.
Peter was writing to a diverse audience:
1 Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
--These were Christians who had grown up in different nations, abroad, away from their native country of Israel.
--The word "precious" here means "valued," or "honored." Thus for one born abroad they had obtained a precious and honored faith, that body of beliefs, which we have obtained, Their privileges of citizenship were the same as the apostles. The main point to take from this is that "faith" in no way is that intangible "faith" or "belief" in Christ. It is that body of truth, the canon of Scripture which we now believe.

This verse is speaking of privilege. As it is expressed in some other translations:
(ISV) For you have been given the privilege for the Messiah's sake not only to believe in him but also to suffer for him.
--It is a privilege to believe on him.
--It is a privilege to be saved.
--It is a privilege to suffer for him. The apostles counted themselves worthy to suffer for his sake.

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Context is demanded to understand this verse.
First it was a "notable miracle" that a miracle of a man who had been a cripple for forty years should be healed. All the people wondered. What was the response of Peter?

Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
--It was not by Peter's power that made this man to walk. It was by the power of the Lord Jesus. Christ.
In fact if you look further back at the miracle itself the lame man had no faith at all. He wasn't even expecting or asking for a miracle. He was just asking for some money for his needs.

Acts 3:4 And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us.
5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them.
--All that he expected was some money, something to help sustain him. There was no exercise of faith to be healed.

Acts 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ancle bones received strength.
--This took him by surprise. It was not an exercise of faith on the part of the cripple. It was a miracle of Peter. It was Peter's faith in Christ to perform this miracle.

Acts 3:16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
Vine comments here:

--It was the Peter's faith that healed the cripple, and indeed Peter's faith came from Christ for he was saved. This is not speaking of God giving an unregenerate person faith, which is not taught in the scriptures.
If the man was saved he was saved by putting his faith in Christ, not God's faith in God.or Christ.

 

If walking in the Spirit was automatic you would be sinless. For the Spirit never sins.

This would lead of course to a sinless life and John says:
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Now that is an awkward place to put oneself!

 

Hi brother,

The "inward man" that has been "born from above" by the Holy Spirit does "delight in the law of God" and does not sin. The "inward man" is what 1 John 3:6 is speaking of that says, "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him", however we still have the "outward man" the "flesh" that in it "dwelleth no good thing". It is the "outward man" (the "flesh") that sins, thus of the "outward man" the same writer John who states we "sinneth not" also wrote, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" (1 John 1:8). It is only when one recognizes the distinction between the "outward man" and the "inward man" that these seemingly two contradictory verses by the same author make sense. The flesh is not born from above after regeneration and therefore does not become sinless until we our transformed and receive the "adoption" of the body, "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing" (John 6:63) and "even we ourselves groan within ourselves (the inward man), waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body (the outward man)" and "Who shall change our vile body (outward man), that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body".