Featured Candidates of Apostasy; Are you one?

You're not being "stalked." However, the C/A Debate forum is for many various and sundry good reasons fairly tightly moderated by the Admin team.

 

I've been the mod of the forum since July, 2013. I've sought (though at times failed) to keep the forum on an even keel. It's not "stalking". It's letting you know when you're getting close to a red\yellow card.

As for your question, I'll let others answer you.

 

Nobody, especially the Admins and Moderators, owes you an answer. If we choose not to respond to your posts, that is our business. Not yours. If you think anybody owes you an answer you are on the wrong forum and I suggest you find another place to do your posting.

 

Brother Vooks, please understand when I say this that I am not calling you a fool. But you have made an astounding number of foolish statements on this post. This appears to be merely a lack of maturity on your part, which is understandable. As you grow in Christ Scripture will become less "vague" and more applicable to your understanding.

I never offered you a theory. I offered you Scripture (which you found objectionable and “vague”). There is a reason that I did not offer you a theory. I knew in your own mental dialogue you would come up with one for us to discuss.

Your error here is simply in that what you view as a “transition” Scripture presents as a new act of creating (a new birth, regeneration, etc.). Again, your thoughts wander too much in to your own philosophical musings to be taken seriously here. At this point in your life, perhaps it is best for you to master the basics instead of tackling deeper topics. I encourage you to take a break from what appears to be a self-absorbed method of “study” and open your mind to Scripture.

In principle I have found it unproductive to discuss Scripture with those so foolish as to lean on their own understanding, so I generally direct those to a book of the Bible. We are told not to cast our riches before swine, and this principle remains. One cannot discuss wisdom with fools as the fool is typically dogmatically foolish. Anyway, that’s just a general principle.

Again, I didn’t offer you a theory (I offered you Scripture). I never said that I do not understand whether or not infants have eternal life. I said that I do not know how God works in the lives of infants. Here would have been appropriate to question my evasiveness or vagueness (why I did not say either way).

The reason that I didn’t give you a proper answer to that question regarding infants is that you seem so confused in your theology I thought it best to bypass that discussion. After you have gained a biblical understanding of salvation, then perhaps we can discuss this issue. But as my position differs from many on the BB, it would be better to discuss it on another thread altogether. Still, my suggestion remains that before you venture into that type of study it would be better for you to study the Word of God for all of those questions you have about salvation.

Again, the argument in your own mind has led you to a foolish and incorrect assumption. Your first mistake is that I believe God damns infants. And of course, your second was ridiculing God regardless of what you believe my understanding to be.

This is why I hold to that principle of not discussing some issues with the weak and foolish. Just imagine if you were one of those (weak and foolish) how much more you may have demeaned the God of your salvation through a disagreement with a theory I may have offered. I would be guilty in a sense for your arrogant statements against God simply for trying to explain what I suspected was beyond your comprehension. This, of course, is not the case here as I have not offered any such theory. You came up with that one on you own.

I think that your insults would be better directed at me than at God. Right now you believe that God is one who “makes mistakes.” But as you grow in Christ and gain knowledge through walking with God, I am confident that this will change. Don’t get discouraged, brother, just keep in the Word and in prayer. Stay in the fundamental things of Christ until you come to a better understanding and then venture onto to secondary things, otherwise you run the risk of depending on your own understanding and philosophies rather than standing on the gospel of Christ.

Again:

Brother, I trust that your statement here was merely an unlearned attempt to highlight what you erroneously assumed to be my position, not that you reject the God I worship (although this appears to be a denouncement of salvation on your part, I think it obvious that this was not your intent). Here I would encourage you to think carefully about what you would write before putting "pen to paper." You do not need to be careful not to offend me, you won't. But I do think that you need to show more respect when it comes to speaking of God. Again, this comes with maturity.

Like I indicated, until you comprehend and develop a better understanding of your own salvation (not that you are saved – that’s granted – but in God’s work in salvation) I think it better to shy away from discussing more philosophical and theoretical issues. And again, I suggest reading John and his epistles.

If you would like a more detailed reading plan to help you grow in the faith and perhaps discover the answers to these questions then please feel free to shoot me a PM. I'll help you in any way I can. I promise you, brother Vooks, that the more you prayerfully and earnestly study God's Word the less meaningless and vague it will become to you. You will find yourself leaving behind your theories and philosophies in favor of God's Word and you will gain this wisdom that seems to escape your grasp.

 

The key thing that God has said that has shown me that I am saved without question and that He is greater than my sin are the verses that tell me that the Spirit is given as a guarantee for my salvation.

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 "And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee."

2 Corinthians 5:4-5 "For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee."

Ephesians 1:13-14 "In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory."

Hebrews 6:16-18 "For people swear by something greater than themselves, and in all their disputes an oath is final for confirmation. So when God desired to show more convincingly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeable character of his purpose, he guaranteed it with an oath, so that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us."

 

Note that it bears thorns and briers. Does a vine that is grafted to the true vine produce thorns and briers?

 

I also had one thing these don't have: I was made a new creation and my salvation was guaranteed by God with the Holy Spirit.

 

You misunderstand, brother Vooks. I wasn't talking about you specifically. I was arguing in abstract.

All of us are maturing to degrees as we now see dimly what will once be made clear (this is also in the Bible. There is a sense where we are being conformed into the image of Christ. Some people call it "sanctification."). I am offering to help you along in your journey. If you recall, it was you that were asking the questions - not me. And rather than my "wisdom" what did I offer? Scripture.

I'm not sure why you are stuck on the idea that God "damns infants." While I find the conclusion repulsive (my wife and I lost a child in a late miscarriage but found comfort during that time in God's wisdom and provision), I also understand some hold that view. It doesn't seem that you do, and I'm not sure why you are adamant to thrust that view on me. But you seem to manifest your own opponents and project them to others here. When I speak of a maturity issue I do not mean physical maturity, but spiritual maturity.

You have made several statements that leads me to believe you have not studied (or at least have not known what you have studied) God's Word. One was the statement that God made a mistake with Israel in the wilderness. The other is this constant rejection of the passages I offered as "theory." And, of course, there is this habit of reading into my own views thoughts foreign to my theology. We could continue from there to proper Christian discourse as presented in Scripture. The list goes on, brother.

So while I do not know where you stand in your faith, I do know that there is room to grow. We are not perfected and are called to help each other along the way. I'm here to help you.

 

Because of the 30 day suspension of the OP, I am closing this thread.