Featured 1 John 5:1 we become Sons of God after believing, Regeneration after Faith

Too bad there isn't an "unhelpful" button to push for you.

And did you here how silly you sound? Those who spent time learning Greek are hearing God's voice better than you. B/c God spoke the NT in Greek. You are getting his Word through a translation. Ever sat and listened to a sermon while it is translated. Boring!

And in this case, the correct doctrine is based on the Greek grammar and syntax. Anything else would be "doctrines of men".

So if you are in agreement with revwmc, hows about you contribute something with substance?

 

And God spoke the NT and it was written in Greek, as Brothers GT & TC already pointed out.

One is not merely opened to hearing. He is closed to all things God. God must quicken him first. In this quickening, God gives a new heart, eyes, and ears. If a man is truly open to hearing God, the correct doctrine, it is God who has enabled him to hear it.

 

You can save some time by not studying for your lessons as you have disqualified yourself by this horrendous display of why some should not attempt to teach anything as they offer error upon error and will not be corrected....

 

Pretty much all of the translators have done
a good enough job to more than satisfy God.
'Tis simply not necessary for all of the beyond-incredible
intellectual wizards here on dis forum to give their most
wonderfully-incredible take on the Greek words, phrases,
clauses, sentences, and paragraphs in Scriptures.
Butski, thanks anyway.

Something else most of you won't believe ...
Many years ago, there was a thing going on about,
"Which translation is the best?" (or some such wording).
The Lord told me to run from this, and NOT be involved.
As in:
Our Bibles are plenty good enough.
They all present the major important Truths.
(Except those written by cults, such as da JWs,
who insist that Jesus was "a" god, John 1:1.)

 

I'm back from Africa. Had a wonderful time, trained translators, got the ball rolling on one translation and my sidekick gathered data to analyze the language for an unwritten tribal translation. God is good! And I bought the hat (national soccer team) and found out it was made in China. (Who would have thunk it!)

I hope the OP does not preclude arguments from semantics, because syntax without semantics is useless, or course. So, consider the semantics of gennao. Here is the Friberg definition:
"1. be or become the father of, beget lit. Mt 1:2ff, 20; J 8:41; 9:34; Ac 7:8, 29. Fig. J 1:13; 1 Cor 4:15; Phlm 10; 1 J 2:29.—2. of women: bear Lk 1:13, 35, 57; Ac 2:8; 22:28 .—3. fig. cause, produce 2 Ti 2:23." [pg 38]

Now, please notice that almost all of the usages are "to bear, begat, or in other words. "to produce life." In the one instance (1 Tim. 2:23) where the word means "cause, produce" something else it is a figure of speech, not the normal lexical meaning. Even more importantly, the thing that is produced is in the accusative--the object of the verb. So, for gennao in 1 John 5:1 to mean that all the ones believing were made so by being regenerated, "all the ones believing" would have to be in the accusative. That phrase is nominative, meaning that it is the subject of the sentence.

Furthermore, remember that there is no noun in Greek meaning "believer." The substantival participle must fulfill that function. Therefore, once again I say that "all that believe" is simply the subject of the sentence in 1 John 5:1, not something produced by the verb. So a valid translation would be, "All who are believers that...."

Let me add a quote from David Alan Black here: "The tense of the participial construction expresses relative time rather than absolute time: the present tense usually indicates that the action of the participle occurs concurrently with that of the head verb." (Linguistics for Students of New Testament Greek, p. 113). Therefore, in 1 John 5:1 the participle (believing ones) and the main verb (have been born) are happening at the same time, and the main verb did not cause the substantival participle.

 

So I ask. Does that therefore mean that both, the believing and the being born, came about at the same time because of being, "of God"? Is that inclusive in the syntax and semantics? Does the Greek say that? I know no Greek.

 

Great to have you back, John! Glad to hear you had a great trip. I love the work that you and others like you do.

I have a request.

Can we take up the syntactical and semantic argument on the thread I created. The one started here after mine by revwmc was done by a guy who has no knowledge of Greek and been abusing the language so much that you would have had to tell him to rein it in. He has ignored completely the arguments I've been making and just keeps falling back to the same silly things he keeps saying which fly against the Greek grammar.

Plus, I'd love to have a real debate/discussion with somone knowledgable of these things.

 

Thanks for the long reply. I'm 73 about 30 years as Presbyterian and about 30 as Southern Baptist. I don't feel as if I have ever been hyper nor was John C. Don't think I would not consider myself to be even Calvinst but Monergist I am. If God doesn't save and by his power keep us saved, we'll not inherit the kingdom of God. JMO

I guess I was asking if the phrase or the genitive, of God, of what little Greek I have been able to pick up on not make, the rest to be exactly that, of God?
In other words, if God wasn't in the genitive could you then say they were believing ones from some source other than God? Hope this makes sense.

GreekTim also.

 

Please, John, answer him here. He thinks we are adding to the verb gegennetai when we say it is perfect passive and so to convey that in English it should be translated "he/she/it has been born".

 

All the more reason that when solid biblical correction is offered, and it has been....you should welcome the correction gladly.
You seem to want to hold onto the ERROR with a death grip.....Failure to welcome correction is not the sign of a faithful person, much less someone who is in any teaching position.

 

the Holy spirit is not to be blamed for the error you hold, and continue to hold.....the error is all of you.You have resisted at least 4-5 people on this thread alone.