Featured The Commandments of the New Covenant

If you mean to ask do I think or believe the same, then yes. Galatians 6:8 confirms my conclusion that the issue is one of the heart and spirit rather than merely one of ridding oneself of materialistic goods. Think about this - where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

We need to carefully consider what we treasure."Nam Sibyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla pendere, et cum illi pueri dicerent: Sibylla ti theleis; respondebat illa: apothanein thelo." Σiβιλλα τi θeλεις; respondebat illa: aποθανεiν θeλω."

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No, I do not believe it is true we save ourselves by resisting sin. I believe that the doctrine of self salvation (even self salvation by following Christ as an example) is the antithesis of Christianity.

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Again, when I compare 1 Timothy 4:16 to what I said I think (and thank you for not saying "feel") how wonderful a salvation God has wrought. Not only does God put His Spirit in us, not only does He make us new creations, but He also causes us to walk in His ordinances and we obey his commands.

1 Timothy 4:13-16 is not the first time that Paul instructs believers to persevere. Verses 15-16 is a summary of the previous verses. In verse 15 Paul tells Timothy to be diligent in these matters; give himself wholly to them so that everyone will see his progress. Verse 16 partly repeats these instructions, but more so it summarizes the whole. Watch your life and doctrine. Persevere in them. Why? Because in so doing he will save both himself and his hearers.

Paul's encouragement is to watch your life. Watch your doctrine. Persevere in them and you will save both yourself and those whom God will reach through you. We persevere. We are obedient. In this manner we "save ourselves" through perseverance. But note, that perseverance is of God; that obedience is Christ in us and not of ourselves. Did you ever think about the fact that when you are finally saved (looking at the future element of salvation) then you will be in the image of Christ (the you that would disobey will not exist in the you that is finally saved). You will be refined, completely sanctified. A new you. And right now, if you are saved, then there is a new you. When we are born anew our desires themselves change. We may struggle and not do that which we desire (that which we will) but our desire will be for God in a manner which was impossible before God's work of recreation.

But make no mistake. When we conclude that it is up to us to save ourselves by following the example of Jesus Christ then we have abandoned entirely the doctrine that Paul is encouraging Timothy to grasp and cling to at all costs.

 

Well, I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me. So the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me. It was not me, for while I was lost in sin and death Christ died for me. I did not earn my salvation, but was instead purchased with the precious blood of my Lord.

Now don't get me wrong. Before God saved me out of sin I had tried myself on my own terms. I just couldn't seem to get myself free from sin. I couldn't live up to my own standards much less Gods. So I am grateful that God saved me. I am nothing without Christ.

But enough about me. I surmise that you are a much better man than I. So, what about you...What did you do to earn that salvation I have so undeservingly been gifted?

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No. It is called "grace." Defined as "unmerited (means you don't deserve it) favor."

 

Like I said, I was reborn, born anew of God. But when I came into this world I arrived in opposition to God. I was a sinner. That is fine that you do not believe God has saved me by His own grace. I have assured you that I did not earn my salvation, so the alternative is that you believe me lost. I am comfortable with that because just as my salvation did not depend on my own merit, it also does not depend on your acceptance.

Throughout the past several posts (starting around post#44) you indicate that you have worked out your own salvation and have saved yourself. Let's assume for a moment that the salvation you earned is the same salvation I received as a gift - not of myself (granted, you think mine a figment of my imagination). Would you be offended if God did save people by grace through faith while you worked to earn yours? Also as you saved yourself would you consider those of us who were saved by being purchased by the blood of Christ as equal brothers, or are we less so because God bought us and saved us while we were still sinners? If you have indeed worked you way into the Kingdom and have saved yourself, then it seems as if it would be unfair to refer to you and I as equal in God's Kingdom because I am here because of God, what He did, and not myself (I was purchased) and I am even now wearing a righteousness that belongs to Another, whereas you possess what must be a much superior righteousness of your own.

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Yes, I think that we have established the fact that you believe my salvation is a delusion. And I've granted you that belief because of the misunderstanding that men of themselves merit salvation and deserve to be saved (and I know when I was saved I did not deserve it). That's why I said let's just suppose that God saves people by grace through faith. Hypothetically, if God saves people on the basis of Christ's atoning work on the Cross as grace and not of works...would you consider these people to be your equals since they did not earn their salvation by their own merit?

In other words, let's take for granted that you are saved and you saved yourself. Let's take for granted that God saved me through grace and I did not merit salvation. Is this something that you would consider unfair? Does it make God unjust? Would our salvation have the same effect?