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Featured The doctrine of Hell

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by evangelist6589, May 24, 2016.

  1. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    So you do not believe that we are born and headed to Hell or did I misunderstand you?
     
  2. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    You hold to the traditional view of Hell good and for once we can agree on something. :) Based on the replies in this thread it does not appear that there will be much disagreement on the doctrine of Hell on this board. Perhaps folks on christianforums.com would disagree with the traditional view of Hell, however for a variety of reasons I stay away from that site, as there you might have people who deny essential christian doctrine and claim to be Christians, etc..

    Regarding your comments on the location of Hell perhaps its at the center of the earth, or perhaps in an entirely different location in the universe. But still even if it is at the earth's core, its in a different dimension, so even if man could go there he would not hear people screaming.
     
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I believe that image we are given in Scripture of Hell is allegorical.
     
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  4. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    What did you say? Explain this view.
     
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    You don't have to ask what I said, Evan. That's the good thing about posts. You can simply look at what I typed. :)

    I believe that the picture of Hell we see in Scripture is symbolic.

    This is one reason that I reject the idea that Jesus was separated from God in such a manner as the lost will be separated from God. On the Cross, Jesus was sustained by the Spirit. He had faith that the deliverance of the Father. He remained within the Father's love. Those in Hell are separated from the Spirit. They have no hope of deliverance. There is no Light at the end of the tunnel in Hell. It is complete hopelessness. They are outside of Christ.

    Hell is a “place” (whatever that means, I do not know). It is the lake of fire (the specifics of which I cannot say). But that fire is allegorical. It is allegory for something eternally worse than fire. Scripture conjures up a terrifying image of men burning for all eternity, the worm never dying, gnashing of teeth, etc. in order to paint for us a horrifying symbol which will pale in comparison to the reality of Hell.
     
  6. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    Hmmm...

    The word "and" is a curious insertion.

    Nobody is born guilty of anyrhing. And nobody is born bearing any guilt associated with what Adam did or didn't do.

    Scripture is clear for those who have eyes to see...We all, like sheep, have gone astray.

    Can you go astray from that which you never belonged?

    See Romans 1:18-25

    God's anger is revealed against men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

    Keep that in mind, MEN who suppress the truth. Not babies, grown men.

    Though they knew Him, they acknowledged Him no longer. Wait...these men knew Him?

    Professing to be wise, they became fools. Wait...these men weren't born fools, but became that way?

    Their foolish hearts were darkened. Wait...they weren't born darkened?

    They worshipped the creature rather than the Creator. Wait...babies don't worship anything. These are MEN.

    Men, who knew God. But they suppressed the truth. Thet went their own way. And the righteousness of God was revealed against them.

    Who are these men? ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

    Well, unless you think this is talking about regenerated men who knew God then lost their salvation
     
  7. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    You believe in a literal Hell and hold to the traditional view of Hell.
     
  8. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    So you are like Winman and deny original sin. The term for this belief system is called semi-Pelegainism. I think you need to read the scripture.

    Ps 58:3 (NKJV)
    The wicked are estranged from the womb;
    They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.

    Next read Romans 5
     
  9. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    No, it's not SemiPelagian. You need to learn what you're trying to accuse people of.

    But...so what if it were? Am I supposed to shrink back from the scriptures because some bunch of stuffy over-thinkers thought they needed to tell everybody else they're going to hell?

    You go ahead and cling to your heroes, I'll cling to the cross.
     
  10. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    ?s Traditional view of Hell.

    I assume man never enters ταρταρόω tartaroō?

    I assume γέεννα geenna is the lake of fire of Rev. and man can enter there?

    And there is ᾅδης hadēs which man also can enter?

    I assume man enters Hades and is then later transferred to Geenna, the lake of fire?

    How does one enter Hades?
    How does one enter Geenna?
     
  11. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    You would also do well to build your doctrine from doctrinal scriptures instead of letting people drag you through poetry first.

    btw,
    I notice you offered no comment about Ronans 1.

    That makes it perfectly clear that you believe we can lose our salvation, since the ones who knew God can acknowledge Him no longer and become darkened and become the objects of his wrath.

    So much for eternal security.
    So much for Perseverance of the Saints.
     
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yea...pretty much. That said, I've never been to Avernus, but I've been to Oklahoma. Biggrin
     
  13. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Well I might as well say it because if not me it will be someone else... Here goes and I've heard it said Jesus descended into hell... Did he or didn't he according to scripture?... If not where did this come from?... I don't believe he did what do you brethren think?... Where was he for 3 days?... His word to the thief is today you will be with me in paradise... Brother Glen
     
    #33 tyndale1946, May 24, 2016
    Last edited: May 24, 2016
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think scripture teaches Hades - yes, Hell - no. Hell is the lake of fire (no one is currently "in Hell" as that follows the Judgment).

    Unless you are reading the gospel according to Joyce Meyers. Then Jesus was in Hell for three days being tortured by demons. (not that the belief is unique to Meyers)
     
  15. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    What I have heard he was in hell preaching to the captives... Comments!... Brother Glen
     
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I've heard that also. Except that it is unbiblical (that Jesus went to Hell to preach to the dead and win souls), I don't know what to say. Those who died in the OT and we're saved were purchased with the same blood as us living today. They died either saved or lost (no sermon needed in Sheol). What did occur was a fulfillment of their faith in the coming Christ.
     
    #36 JonC, May 24, 2016
    Last edited: May 24, 2016
  17. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Sorry, but I believe the above is heresy. Hell cannot be corporeal nor is it eternal. God's word clearly tells us the dead in Hell are spirit beings as their bodies are still in their graves.

    The bible also clearly says that Hell is NOT eternal but will be cast into the Lake of Fire at the consummation of the ages. Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
     
  18. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    A lot has to be filled in with active imagination and a little speculation.

    btw,
    It is a view I hold to.

    But the filling in also comes from understanding other portions of scripture.

    Hades - the place of the dead (Sheol). Comprised of Abraham's bosom for the saints, and an unnamed place of torment for the wicked.

    Why saints? Because they were not born again yet. The washing of regeneration, cleansing by the blood of Christ couldn't gappen until He died (Heb 9-10).

    Christ died, proclaimed victory and set captives free. Only after that are we ever told that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
     
  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Jesus was, for three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Or in the grave. He was in "hades" - the abode of the dead. This, of course, referring to His humanity. His human body. His Deity as in Heaven, with the thief from the other cross, and with the Father, and in the Heavenly City, and attending the Heavenly Mercy Seat (Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.).

    The whole "Protestant Purgatory" nonsense is without biblical warrant. It is based on the Hyper Dispensationalism of Bullinger and others. The idea that nobody went to Heaven before the cross is silly. Check out Enoch And Elijah. And maybe read Psalms. Surely goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever (Psalm 23:6). You guide me with Your counsel, and afterward You will take me into glory. Whom have I in heaven but You? And earth has nothing I desire besides You (Psalm 73:24,25).

    The idea of a limbus patrum (limbo of the fathers) arose in Middle Ages. It was taught that heaven had been closed to humanity from the time of Adam's fall until the coming of Christ. Catholic heresy.
     
  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    God is not limited by Time. He is the Father of Eternity (Isaiah 9:6).

    Christ's sacrifice on the cross is not limited by Time.

    Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
     
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