The Biblicist,
Bro. Downing is a fine Christian gentleman and we agree on many things. However, he and you both fail to see that in Romans 7:15-21 the will is inclined to good or engaged to do good but it is the power that is missing to put the will for good into action.
Hello B,
Thanks for taking time to consider what was offered. I am glad we can agree on some of these things. I think we also agree that paul speaks as a believer here.
In Romans 6 we have the exhortation that the will of the child of God is no longer inclined toward unrighteousness but toward righteousness and that is the evidence he is the servant of God.
Yes we are now willing bondslaves....no carnal christian here.
In chapter seven Paul then confronts the issue of the law with regard to the believer and its standard of righteousness. In Romans 7:1-6 the child of God is dead LEGALLY to the law by the body of Christ. The body of Christ has legally satisfied the law's penalty and the body of Christ has satisfied the Law's standard for righteousness as Christ fulfilled the law in his own body. Hence, it is no longer about us and the law as we are dead to the law by the body of Christ. In Romans 7:7-13 the past tense Saul of Tarsus could never satisfy the righteousness of the law in his own body. Prior to being aware of the Law's definition of sin, Saul had no experiential sense of condemnation by the law. However, when he came to realize what the law really demanded, he died, meaning, he was condemned to death by that standard. The fault was not in the law but in him as the law is righteous, good and holy. The point is that the natural Saul of tarsus can't do what jesus did in his own body and his personal experience with the law IN HIS OWN BODY ultimately demonstrated that.
agreed
This brings us to Romans 7:14-25. Please note the will has now been engaged or inclined to serve God, with the mind he serves God. However, in the regenerate Paul he still cannot satisfy the law in his own body even by an inclined mind or will to do good. He does not have power to enforce his will to do good, or to enforce his mind to serve God through his body and the problem is found in his body. That problem is the law of sin.
Correct...that is why we are commanded to mortify;
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
So what Christ did in his body to satisfy the law, neither Saul of Tarsus can do in his own body, and neither can Paul the Apostle do in his own body. The answer is that righteousnesss being expressed through his own body does not come from his self-righteousness as a lost person or from hiswill power or his inclination to do good as a saved person but from the indwelling power of the Spirit (Rom. 8:4).
agreed
Just as the Saul of Tarsus had to die to self in order to be saved by Christ, that is he had to completely repudiate self-ability, self-glory and self-effort in order to saved by God, so the saved Paul the apostle must continue repeating that very thing
NO...here is where we differ....Paul does not have to "repeat" the old man dying......
HE IS TO RECKON IT TO BE A FACT AND LIVE IN LIGHT OF IT.
The idea being expressed is......in light of your new converted reality of saving UNION with Christ, live as a child of light.....It is so....now live like it, that is why after instructing believers to mortify their members in col3 he can then say this;
7
In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
12
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
14 And above all these things
put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
He refers back to pre conversion, and then points them forward to how shall they then live.
In the parallel passage in EPH,4-5 He sums it up;
5 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
