Featured OT. Saints....In Heaven or in Limbo?

I did not say prior to Pentecost did I?read my actual response which clearly said....at Pentecost.in post13
you exalt a few verses above all others and force them to walk on their own. You and others once doing this....go down a path that others are not following you down that path
.I offer answers that speak of another way to
Go which does not fit into your scheme.
FRANKLY ....your theology suffers for it as you divorce the root from the fruit.
There are some New things in the New Covenant....that is why it is New..
.There is a continuity to God's redemptive design that you neglect.You once again ....is this 8 times now...accuse me of UIC,view...which I do not hold.There are local churches only here on earth....
You find that position easier to attack so you try and stuff me in there....but it is plain to see you cannot.
God does dwell in the Heavenly Zion and Jerusalem now, and so do All His elect that have departed this earthly life
I believe they have a temporary spiritual body in the intermediate state, but that is a side issue although your view would find that troubling.

 

The Biblicist,

yes....they went to Heaven...every believers agrees...

Are they silent, or Isolated from all others?
Are they....on hold?
Do they gather with departed Nt. saints?

The only value I see with the Landmark view is...it speaks of the NT. Church on earth as God's Institution for now, until the last day......

But then it seems as if once departed from this earthly realm.....any church disappears, only "family members"...exist. Some of" the Family" is the bride...the other are like the proverbial red headed stepchild who can only be a guest.
Is this what you are offering?

So the Olive tree of Romans 11.....goes to the wood chipper....and this "family" is what remains?

So you offer this in respect to all the OT. prophecies of Zion and Jerusalem which includes Gentiles?

.

I meant it in the sense of...SINCE....RE -READ IT.

It repudiates nothing. Ot.saints were saved by God.
There is only one way of salvation.

Yes.....but are you saying the Church Jesus is building will cease?
Only Family is left?
I will build my Family? In two different sections?

 

kyredneck,

When you can....how do you see all who have departed, both Ot.and nt.?

 

How do these verses figure in?
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

Here we have some sort of body parts described.....fingers, tongue, memory, feeling pain , and torment.....while other brothers were still alive on earth?

 

rev6;
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

How do you see a soul if it is invisible?
Where they whole persons/souls,there corrupted bodies awaiting resurrection...did they have a temporal spiritual body,or are they just disembodied Spirits?
How do they speak? Telepathy?

 

Rev19;
19 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

 

Do you have any scripture that shows this?
Where are Nt. saints in heaven? When OT saints are on the earth?
How is there a resurrection here, when Jesus said it would be the last day?
jn5;


24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

jn6;
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

SCRIPTURE ? ???

 

That does not look like a scripture verse . you did not answer jn 5. jn6.

 

The Biblicist,

I ignored it for good reasons

no.....but now it is you who speak in universal terms,lol...the church???is there only one local church now?

There are thousands of local churches on earth. In heaven there are redeemed persons, and angelic beings.........they are assembled in ONE PLACE.
They are constantly being harvested from earth into heaven until the last day.

yes

Those already saved yes, some are not saved yet, some are not born yet.

During prayer and worship they enter into the Holy place....their physical body does not go there. If you travel to Europe but phone your wife...do you commune with her even though there is some distance in between?
If you are in the same room with your wife, and lose your eyesight....are you still with her...?
What if both of you lose eyesight? does that change that you are with her?
Physical sight is not the only measure.
Angels are present with us and we do not see them...does that mean they are not present with us?

okay...does this family consist of every departed saint?

,
okay....so...family is everyone.....

this assembled family....as it assembles[ecclesia]....does NOT constitute an eternal Church, but rather...it is something else now???
I did not say...NT. Church.....but I did say...Eternal Church.....the True Zion and Jerusalem?

You speak of Zion and Jerusalem as only a place.....it is more than that;
mt henry;

JFB;

You are saying....there is no assembly in heaven? Does it have to be the NT>assembly that we find on earth? There can never be a future assembly?

 

What is this?


Joel 2:32 It will happen that whoever will call on the name of Yahweh shall be saved; for in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be those who escape, as Yahweh has said, and among the remnant, those whom Yahweh calls.

Obadiah 1:17 But in Mount Zion, there will be those who escape, and it will be holy. The house of Jacob will possess their possessions.

Obadiah 1:21 Saviors will go up on Mount Zion to judge the mountains of Esau, and the kingdom will be Yahweh's.

Micah 4:7 and I will make that which was lame a remnant, and that which was cast far off a strong nation: and Yahweh will reign over them on Mount Zion from then on, even forever."

Hebrews 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable multitudes of angels,

Revelation 14:1 I saw, and behold, the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him a number, one hundred forty-four thousand, having his name, and the name of his Father, written on their foreheads.

The word Zion is also used in a theological or spiritual sense in Scripture. In the Old Testament Zion refers figuratively to Israel as the people of God (Isaiah 60:14). In the New Testament, Zion refers to God’s spiritual kingdom. We have not come to Mount Sinai, says the apostle, but “to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem” (Hebrews 12:22). Peter, quoting Isaiah 28:16, refers to Christ as the Cornerstone of Zion: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame” (1 Peter 2:6).

 

Gill;