Semi pelagianism will not erase the truth of God's biblical salvation which you deny when you post what you just did
Last edited:
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
The gospel according to Paul
- Thread starter AndThisGospel
- Start date
- Status
AndThisGospel
Member
That's it, ignore Paul.
AndThisGospel
Member
Salvation is in Christ, not in you. Reject Christ forfeit heaven. It's that simple....
Heb 10:10 By that will (Christ's will - His doing & dying) we (believers) have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Christ's work of atonement is a finished work. Faith doesn't make it so....Faith is accepting what has already happened "in Christ Jesus".
Now look what happens if the believer turns his back on Christ:
For if we (believers) sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
What is this willful sin? What's the context? Again, see verse 10. We are complete in Christ by faith.
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified (see verse 10) a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.”31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
A born again believer can trample the Son of God underfoot and count the blood of new covenant a common thing - thereby insulting the Spirit of grace. Don't kid yourself.
We are once saved always saved as long as our faith remains in Him. But if you apostatize, its over for you. Apostasy is rejecting your need of Christ....It is not to be confused with back-sliding...
Last edited:
AndThisGospel
Member
Now look at Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free (i.e., from under the curse of the law), and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage (i.e, salvation by law)
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you (the Galatian believers) become circumcised (compare Acts15:1,5), Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."
Any believer who has turned his back on the gospel and is attempting to be justified before God by his law keeping has, according to Paul, fallen from grace.
So there's another warning to believers. The warning is don't be deceived by your own righteousness, for you have none. You can never earn salvation by your law performance. If you think you can, well, you've fallen from grace. That is, you are lost....
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you (the Galatian believers) become circumcised (compare Acts15:1,5), Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."
Any believer who has turned his back on the gospel and is attempting to be justified before God by his law keeping has, according to Paul, fallen from grace.
So there's another warning to believers. The warning is don't be deceived by your own righteousness, for you have none. You can never earn salvation by your law performance. If you think you can, well, you've fallen from grace. That is, you are lost....
No I don't have to ignore Paul I just have to understand what he wrote which so far you're not quite getting .
There is no such thing as an individual falling from Grace
Paul is speaking of falling from Grace as a principle or a way to be saved and looking to law rather than Grace will not save them.
the principle of Law keeping cannot save , unless you're thinking of the law keeping that Jesus did on our behalf.
You're not the first person to make this error but you have to really reread it and get it right.
I have seven or eight commentaries actually on Hebrews and not one of them says anything close to what you're suggesting. That tells me you don't have a grasp on this book which was written to warn the people and not to go back into Judaism when Christ is here and revealed.
it was a real warning to real people not to go back to Judaism which would be apostasy. It is not about individuals who are saved and then somehow become unsaved ,either you're saved or you're not. Again you would benefit from understanding and studying what is the Covenant salvation that God provides for his people.
Always pleased to oblige! It's pretty well-known.AndThisGospel said:
"I am the Good Shepherd. The Good Shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.............But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them and they follow Me, and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My Father's hand..........' (John 10:11, 26-30).
Note that He does not say to the Pharisees, "You are not of My sheep because you do not believe." It is quite the other way around.
Whatever Hebrews 6 may be thought to mean, it cannot contradict this text.
You know what it sure sounds like Paul is saying they are doing something wrong. Which would be completely absurd and useless, A LIE even. Since there is no act on their part to correct the situation.
In other words looking at the law can't damn them since you already believe doing things right is of no benefit why whine about doing things wrong?
Who's he talking to at all?
Imagine we are in same room. Well Gee Paul we here are already under grace, what are you going about like a madman for?
Galatians 5
19Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Who is Paul warning? Not us we are saved already. Not the unsaved there is nothing in their power to better their situation.
He's here saying I'm warning you just as I have warned you before. From what? I'm saved. I have a right not to behave. How dare he try to make me ashamed as if he is qualified more saintly then I am. God alone is the qualifier. I AM SAVED through Jesus Christ.
I don't have to stop sinning, It does nothing for me. It would be an audacity on my part to even TRY to stop sinning.
2 Peter 3:15-16 comes irresistibly to mind. Not to mention Matthew 7:21-23.
AndThisGospel
Member
Oh, I see...Paul's just making a point. His warning, well...not a warning, just a principle. Don't worry, be happy. Paul's just teasing us. Calvin, after all, is an Apostle from God, not Paul.
So when Paul says, "For if we (believers) sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries." He doesn't really mean it. Paul's just having fun with us.
AndThisGospel
Member
Let's look at the following:
John chapter 10 NASB
verse 16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also....25 Jesus answered them (the unbelieving Jews), “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me. 26 But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep (i.e, you do not follow me the Good Shepard). 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish (i.e, die the 2nd death); and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
John chapter 10 NASB
verse 16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also....25 Jesus answered them (the unbelieving Jews), “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me. 26 But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep (i.e, you do not follow me the Good Shepard). 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish (i.e, die the 2nd death); and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
AndThisGospel
Member
"He (the good Shepard) came to his own (the Jews), and his own people did not receive him." John 1:11
Now, let's look at "no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand".
Rom 8:35 "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?"
So John's right....if you have placed your faith in Christ - no matter how much "trouble or hardship or persecution" comes your way - no one can take you away from Christ, but...
But what? YOU, of your own free-will, because of "sin’s deceitfulness" (Heb 3:13), can of yourself chose to abandon Christ.
The text says "no one" can cause you to fall, and that's true, but it does not say "you" yourself cannot reject Christ.
AndThisGospel
Member
If you have decided to keep your faith in Christ, no matter what, then no one can separate you from Christ.
Bottom line: Keep the faith, or apostatize. It's your decision.
AndThisGospel
Member
Matt 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come......
Your faith must endure until the end....You are once saved always saved as long as you keep your faith in Christ.
Your faith must endure until the end....You are once saved always saved as long as you keep your faith in Christ.
If you want to be taken seriously do not add words to the text....
It does not say Paul wrote this first of all.
It does not say we believers as you post....
You still do not understand the nature of biblical salvation....
No one mentioned Calvin here.....
Do you want to come to truth? Study what is biblical salvation first,then get clarification on those things that have eluded your grasp before these ill advised posts....
Maybe you can still edit them before anyone else sees them
It says.....you believe not...BECAUSE you are not my sheep....
Reading correctly is fundamental to discovering truth......return to go, do not collect 200$.....
People who go to hell attempt to get to heaven by doing things by their own strength.......law keeping to get or maintain salvation......this is a method or principle that we are told that by the works of the law there will be no flesh justified in His sight.
Those saved are saved by the Grace of God.......to fall away from this principle of grace is to return to this principle of works which is doomed.
Your guys are still silent.
Who is Paul warning? Not us we are saved already.
Not the unsaved because they have no choice in improving their standing with God.
WHO IS THE WARNING FOR?
Galatians 5
19Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Paul's warning is a SIN. Contrary to once saved always saved and contrary to the unnecessity of works.
In our day it is most Roman Catholics who practice these sins to the max.
Last edited:
- Status