God said that He had reserved 7000 unto Himself, and Paul stated not all Israel is actually Israel, as saved and spiritual, correct?
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The gospel according to Paul
- Thread starter AndThisGospel
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According electon of Grace, they had a faithful remnant God chose out to be saved...
His predestination refers to jsut His elect, as all others are going where they desire and will to go, apart from God!
AndThisGospel
Member
What kind of twisting and distortion was that answer?
"He (Jesus) has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him (God the Father) holy and blameless and beyond reproach—IF indeed you continue in the faith"
It's rather simple: In order for Christ to present you holy and blameless in Himself before God and His law YOU must keep your faith in Christ...
According to Peter the "ignorant and unstable ... distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."
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AndThisGospel
Member
Why were they chosen? Because they accepted the conditions of grace - belief in Christ through faith....The ones that were lost tried to work their way into heaven.
Why do you persist in twisting the obvious? Your salvation is not in you, it is in Christ. As long as you have Christ, by faith, you are "holy and blameless" in Him. Reject Christ - that is, give up your faith in Him - and you will be eternally lost.
You do notknow tat there are different ways to understand IF in the Greek itself, depending upon construction nd contex? many times would be better read as "since"
I was chosen to be found in Him by God from eternity past, and that election is due to will of God, and not of man!
And jesus claimed that he will make sure ALL aved go to Heaven and are kept saved, was he wrong?
Still not the slightest attempt to deal with the text which is, unless you have forgotten is still John 10:11, 25-30. Never mind.
AndThisGospel
Member
Yes, of course you would like to change the sentence. That way you could make it fit your theology.
Thatis how it would read from the Greek NT at times, as if was conditioned on it being something that was assured to be done or completed!
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AndThisGospel
Member
Could you please attempt to separate your words? It makes it hard to read.
AndThisGospel
Member
Still not the slightest attempt to deal with the text which is, unless you have forgotten is still John 10:11, 25-30. Never mind.
Look, I have a feeling you guys are not going to give up your Calvinistic view, not even if hell freezes over. It seems many of you have made his theology the measuring stick of all truth. That's very dangerous because Calvin was just a man, a sinner, and you should not make him the measuring stick of truth. The Holy Spirit should guide you....
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AndThisGospel
Member
Remember where Jesus says that He has “other sheep” which are not of this sheepfold. What is He talking about? The “other sheep” are the Gentiles....Still not the slightest attempt to deal with the text which is, unless you have forgotten is still John 10:11, 25-30. Never mind.
When Jesus speaks of “sheep” in John 6, He is referring to the Jewish people who came to Him from the Father. This imagery has great support from numerous Old Testament texts (cf. I kings 22:17; Ps 44:11, 22; 74:1; 78:52; 79:13; 95:7; 100:3; 119:176; Isa 53:6; Jer 23:1; 50:6, 17; Ezek 34:6, 11-12).
AndThisGospel
Member
Here's my summation on Calvinism:
- It is a heresy
- It is "another gospel"
- It's smacks of favoritism
- It makes God appear to be a sinner
- It is just just another form of subtle, self-righteousness, as in, "God picked me, but you others have been predestined for damnation"
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Well Amen to all that, but you have been telling us that God has had mercy on all men because Christ has suffered and died for all men. But in fact the context of Romans 9:15 is nothing to do with idolatry, but with election. Just take some time to read through Romans 9:6-26. I don't have time to exegete the whole passage now, but it is actually very obviously about election. 'Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honour and one for dishonour?' (v.21).
well amen again. All God's elect will be saved (John 6:39 etc.), but they will only be saved as they persevere in the faith. If they do not persevere, what can be said about them? That they are not God's elect; that they were never actually saved. That is why the Lord Jesus Christ says of such people, "I never knew you!" Not, "I knew you once and then forgot about you," and why John says, 'They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us they would have continued with us; but they went out that it might be made manifest that they were not of us' (1 John 2:19).
This is why I dislike OSAS intensely, and prefer the term the Puritans and the early Baptists used: The Perseverance of the Saints. The people of the New Covenant are a holy and sanctified people, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and there is no question but that every single one for whom Christ died will reach heaven. (eg. John 17:24). But they will not be saved in ungodliness and/or unbelief, which is why Paul bids professing Christians to examine themselves (2 Corinthians 13:5). The warnings are there not because true Christians may fall away, but in order that nominal Christians may be alerted to their danger.
AndThisGospel
Member
That's a cop-out phrase (i.e, "they were never actually saved")...It stinks with judgmentalism.
I guess that the followers of Calvin do not have a rudimentary understanding from what Christ came delivery us. Deliverance is salvation. Christ came to save us from something. So from what did He come to save us?
Gal 4:4 "When the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law....
What is wrong about being under God's law?
- "There is none righteous, no, not even one" Rom 3:10
- “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them." Gal 3:10
Gal 3:23 "...before faith came, we were imprisoned under the law..."
To remain "under law" is to be cursed; the "curse of the law" is the second death.
"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the abominable, the murderers, the sexually immoral, the sorcerers, the idolaters, and all liars shall have their portion in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone. This is the second death." Rev 21:8
Therefore Christ came to save us from "the transgression of law". Christ came to save us from under the law that justly condemns us.
As long as we place our faith in Christ, our High Priest, we stand "holy & blameless" before God's law in heaven, but if we apostatize, we can say goodbye to grace and hello "to the cruse of the law".
You are breaking the rules of this forum by accusing your brothers in Christ of heresy, but apart from that you have failed utterly to prove your point and are now reduced to mere assertion.
This I know.
I sought the Lord, and afterward I knew
He moved my soul to seek Him, seeking me;
It was not I that found, O Saviour true;
No, I was found of Thee.
Thou didst reach forth Thy hand and mine enfold;
I walked and sank not on the storm-vexed sea--
'Twas not so much that I on Thee took hold,
As Thou, dead Lord, on me.
I find, I walk, I love, but Oh, the whole
Of love is but my answer, Lord, to Thee;
For Thou wert long beforehand with my soul,
Always Thou lovest me.
Anon. 1878.
Will do! Do you accept that in the Greek, if can mean different things?
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It's all down to us then. It is not God who saves us, but we who must save ourselves. And how is this not 'self-righteousness' (your insult, post # 107), that we secure our own salvation by our constancy, our wisdom, and our faithfulness?
God forbid that anything in my salvation should depend on me!
AndThisGospel
Member
Oh boy...more self-righteousness!
We are more righteous than they....
We are "holy & blameless" in Christ alone. Yes, we grow differently, but at the end of the day we are still sinners, just not practicing sinners.
According to Paul "all have sinned (both saint and sinner) and come short of the glory of God" (Rom 3:23). "The glory of God" is His agape love or His goodness. See Ex 33:18,19
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