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"I have kept the faith"...

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AndThisGospel

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2 Tim 4:6 For I (Paul) am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith...8 in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

This is what Paul wrote shortly before his death. Why would he link keeping his faith in Christ to the reward of "the crown of righteousness" if losing his faith was never a possibility?
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
AndThisGospel said:
2 Tim 4:6 For I (Paul) am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith...8 in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

This is what Paul wrote shortly before his death. Why would he link keeping his faith in Christ to the reward of "the crown of righteousness" if losing his faith was never a possibility?
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Men do loose their faith but never their Salvation. Thomas for example would not believe that Christ was risen from the dead. He had to touch the Lord and feel His wounds before he could believe it was really Christ he was speaking to. I believe that most of the disciples lost faith on the day the Lord was crucified.
Hope must of seemed impossible at that time, Even though the Lord told them ahead of time. His death was hard to deal with. I believe we must all struggle at times to keep the faith.
MB
 
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AndThisGospel

Member
MB said:
Men do loose their faith but never their Salvation.
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In other words their faith took a dip, but not their salvation. I agree. That's because the believer's faith wavers from time to time.

Thomas for example would not believe that Christ was risen from the dead. He had to touch the Lord and feel His wounds before he could believe it was really Christ he was speaking to. I believe that most of the disciples lost faith on the day the Lord was crucified.
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Their faith took a nose dive, but ultimately they didn't give up Christ.

I believe we must all struggle at times to keep the faith.
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Sure, but let's get back to Paul's quote. Let's look at the reverse of what Paul stated:

Tell me which scenario you agree with:
  1. I haven't fought the good fight, I haven't finished the course, I haven't kept the faith...8 in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness....
  2. I haven't fought the good fight, I haven't finished the course, I haven't kept the faith...8 in the future there is not laid up for me the crown of righteousness....
 
MennoSota

MennoSota

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Site Supporter
Do people ever look back on their life and keep account of what they have done? Does their works determine what happens after they die?

Why are humans so desperate to be in control?
 
Scarlett O.

Scarlett O.

Moderator
Moderator
AndThisGospel said:
This is what Paul wrote shortly before his death. Why would he link keeping his faith in Christ to the reward of "the crown of righteousness" if losing his faith was never a possibility?
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"Keeping the faith" or "kept the faith" in this context isn't the opposite of losing it

It's the Greek word τηρέω [tā-re'-ō]. It literally means "to attend to carefully or take care of" in the following ways: to guard, to keep the state in which one is in, to observe, or to reserve or undergo something. [From Strong's - which I know is not 100% infallible]

Paul wasn't saying that he was receiving his reward because he kept the faith. He is telling Timothy that time is up for him [Paul]. His end is near and he knows it. I read verses 5, 6, and 7 as being a unit of one train of thought and verse 8 as transitioning to a new thought. I don't read verses 5, 6, and 7 as causing verse 8.

I read it as [5] Paul telling Timothy to stand firm as a pastor, [6-7] because he [Paul] is going to die soon as his race is finished, and [8] Paul knows exactly where he is going and how wonderful it will be there to receive divine judgment from God, as we all will - so says Paul.

2 Timothy 4:5-8 [emphasis mine]

[5] But you [Timothy] be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. [6] For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. [7] I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. [8]Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.
 
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MB

Well-Known Member
AndThisGospel said:
In other words their faith took a dip, but not their salvation. I agree. That's because the believer's faith wavers from time to time.



Their faith took a nose dive, but ultimately they didn't give up Christ.



Sure, but let's get back to Paul's quote. Let's look at the reverse of what Paul stated:

Tell me which scenario you agree with:
  1. I haven't fought the good fight, I haven't finished the course, I haven't kept the faith...8 in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness....
  2. I haven't fought the good fight, I haven't finished the course, I haven't kept the faith...8 in the future there is not laid up for me the crown of righteousness....
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I believe Paul meant what He said.
2Ti 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

After Paul was convinced by The One who gave us Christianity even after he had hated Christians, and in one vision became convinced that he had been wrong. He became convinced of Christ nearly the same moment he first heard Christ speak to him. We know this because He said "Lord what will thou have me to do". In eight little words He confessed Christ as Lord and offered his servitude.

I myself have never been a perfect Christian. Certainly my faith has grown over the years, but I have to admit that there have been times when my faith wasn't what it should have been. Yet I haven't stopped believing in Christ because I can't deny He has always been there for me through every crisis. His holy Spirit lives in side of me directing me and witnessing to me that I belong to Christ..
MB
 
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AndThisGospel

Member
Scarlett O. said:
Paul wasn't saying that he was receiving his reward because he kept the faith.
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Heb 11:6 "And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

Paul kept his faith in Christ. "Tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword" did cause him to give up his faith.

His reward will be a crown of righteousness....

Matt 24:12... he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mark 13:12"... brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death.13 And you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.



 
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AndThisGospel

Member
Heb 10:38 "Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.”

39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

In the above the writer of Hebrews encourages believers not to "draw back to perdition", But, if one does commit the sin of unbelief, after having been saved, "there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.
 
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AndThisGospel

Member
Heb 10:5 Therefore do not cast away your confidence (i.e, faith in Christ), which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

Clearly the warning is to not give up Christ. That implies a believer can give up Christ and turn back to the world.

My point is God is not forcing us to believe...He isn't forcing our will....
 
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AndThisGospel

Member
Heb 3:12 Beware, brethren (fellow believers), lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence (our faith in Christ) steadfast to the end....



 
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AndThisGospel

Member
AndThisGospel said:
Heb 3:12 Beware, brethren (fellow believers), lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence (our faith in Christ) steadfast to the end....
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"Harden through the deceitfulness of sin"...what does it mean?

Indwelling sin - our fallen, human nature - is deceitful. That's why we need to consent for Christ to control our natures. If we do not consent, by faith, then our human natures will try to convince us that really, we aren't that bad. Sure we goof up sometimes, but basically we are good.

Guess what? Good people ultimately don't need Christ and so human nature tries to turn us from Christ to self.....That's why we must keep the faith until the end...
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
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"If you could lose your salvation, you would." John MacArthur


None of us are strong enough and smart enough to keep ourselves saved.
 
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AndThisGospel

Member
AndThisGospel said:
Good people ultimately don't need Christ and so our human nature tries to turn us from Christ to self....
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"I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

Keep in mind "there is none righteous, no, not one"....

Therefore, Christ came not to call "the self-righteous", but sinners
 
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AndThisGospel

Member
SovereignGrace said:
None of us are strong enough and smart enough to keep ourselves saved.
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Saved from what?

Christ has delivered us from under law. He represents us perfect in Himself in the heavenly courts. To give up Christ is to go back under the curse of the law.

Again, Heb 3:12 Beware, brethren (fellow believers), lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence (our faith in Christ) steadfast to the end....
 
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AndThisGospel

Member
SovereignGrace said:
"There are not enough devils to pluck one of His children from His hands." Jesus Christ
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You are right, but the warnings are not about devils or evil men, but your own deceitful nature. You, yourself, can pluck yourself out of Christ's hands. If not, why all the warnings? Did Paul and others warn believers just for kicks & grins?
 
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AndThisGospel

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Matthew 24:9 “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.10“At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. 11“Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. 12“Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. 13“But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
 
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AndThisGospel

Member
Heb 6:4 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, ...6 if they fall away (apostatize), to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame."
 
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AndThisGospel

Member
AndThisGospel said:
Matthew 24:9 “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.10“At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. 11“Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. 12“Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. 13“But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
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2 Thess 2:3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day (the second coming of Christ) will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
 
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