"I have kept the faith"...

[AndThisGospel]

So...some Christians are given the gift of faith, but not others? Strange teaching since Ephesians 2:8-9 says otherwise.

You're getting desperate.

Eph 2:8,9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

The pronoun "it" isn't speaking of faith. If so, we must render Paul's statement as follows:

For [faith] is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, [faith] is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

The pronoun "it" refers to the context: "4...God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive in Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved."

The "it" refers to God's work in Christ. Otherwise "faith" becomes the Savior instead of Christ.

 

[AndThisGospel]

I get it. You add works to salvation and throw away grace...just like the false teachers in the letter to the Galatians.

Here's your theology in a nutshell: God is going to believe for me....That means God believes in God. Does that make sense? No! So God isn't going to believe for you. You must exercise faith towards God. Faith in Christ allows Him to present you in Himself perfect and blameless! Have you got it?

 

[AndThisGospel]

Faith must always have an object; our faith must be in someone or something. And the object of genuine faith is always Christ. Nothing must take His place, not even our faith.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Okay, MennoSoat, I stand corrected. See the following:

"Faith is God’s gift; it is not something we have or can generate ourselves [see Romans 12:3]. The gospel is foolishness to the natural mind [see 1 Corinthians 2:14], so how can a person produce faith in and of himself to believe and accept it? He cannot, without the Holy Spirit."

You are right on this one.

 

[MennoSota]

Here's your theology in a nutshell: God is going to believe for me....That means God believes in God. Does that make sense? No! So God isn't going to believe for you. You must exercise faith towards God. Faith in Christ allows Him to present you in Himself perfect and blameless! Have you got it?

Nope. Try again. Your take on how I understand God's word is in wackadoodle land.

Let me lay it out for you.
1) There is none righteous, not even one. In our unrighteousness we are "dead in our trespasses and sins." We will never, ever, willfully seek out God and want to be surrounded by His holiness. We will always hide or hate God's presence. We always place ourselves on the throne.
2) If God does not intervene, we will always be self-consumed and glorify our selves over God.
3) God is rich in mercy in that while I am stll a sinner, God pardons me by grace.
4) My response to God's grace is one of great joy as God gives me the faith to believe that His pardon and atonement are actually real and given to me.
5) Faith is the natural response or the reconciled person. It comes after God, by His grace, makes us alive in Christ Jesus.

Your version is a version of works salvation apart from grace. It is a different gospel than what is taught in the Bible.

 

[MB]

Who if Paul writing to? Right, his fellow believers. That's the context of Hebrews chapter 3

Paul wrote the entire book of Hebrews to the Hebrews. this is who the book is addressed to. The Hebrews are a special people in that they were the first to receive God's word. They are His chosen people. We cannot claim what is written the Hebrews as being written to us all.

Verse 12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you (i.e., brethren) with an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

Paul was warning those new believers that they need to check them selves regularly for a deceitfull heart. It's like checking your self to make sure the Holy Spirit resides with in you. If He does you should not have a deceitful heart.

When I was newly saved I sometimes had trouble believing that Christ would save a wretch such as my self. I wasn't what I thought was a good selection. This was before I understood that Salvation is a process that goes on for your entire life. We are all a work in progress towards the likeness of Christ. None of us will be perfect in this life although we are growing toward perfection. When we meet Christ in the air on resurrection day we will be perfected and in His likeness. This is when we receive a new body one with out sin.
MB

 

[AndThisGospel]

Let me lay it out for you.
1) There is none righteous, not even one. In our unrighteousness we are "dead in our trespasses and sins." We will never, ever, willfully seek out God and want to be surrounded by His holiness. We will always hide or hate God's presence. We always place ourselves on the throne.

Okay, you've won me over here...I didn't agree fully, but I think you are right here.

2) If God does not intervene, we will always be self-consumed and glorify our selves over God.

I agree...

3) God is rich in mercy in that while I am stll a sinner, God pardons me by grace.

I agree....

4) My response to God's grace is one of great joy as God gives me the faith to believe that His pardon and atonement are actually real and given to me.

Some minor changes and we can agree:

• God gives me "a measure of faith".
• What I receive is based on the holy history of Christ.

5) Faith is the natural response [f]or the reconciled person. It comes after God, by His grace, makes us alive in Christ Jesus.

I partially agree. Some of your terminology refers not to justification by faith, but the gospel. E.G., you said that faith comes about because God, by His grace, makes us alive "in Christ". Eph 2:5 & 6 refers to our redemption "in Christ" before you were even born. Hence is refers to the gospel and not reception of the gospel, i.e., justification by or through faith.

Your version is a version of works salvation apart from grace. It is a different gospel than what is taught in the Bible.

Where am I presenting salvation by works?

 

[AndThisGospel]

We cannot claim what is written the Hebrews as being written to us all.

This concept is foreign to Paul's theology!

Rom 3:9 What then? Are we (the Jews) better than they (the Gentiles)? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin. 10 As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one"

Both Jews and Gentiles are sinners and both need Christ. The Jew doesn't get heaven by works and the rest of us by grace. That's pure baloney.

Paul was warning those new believers that they need to check them selves regularly for a deceitful heart.

I can't find this idea, within the context, that these believers were new to the faith....

It's like checking your self to make sure the Holy Spirit resides with in you. If He does you should not have a deceitful heart.

That's based on the idea that the believer doesn't have a sinful nature after conversion. Romans chapter 7 proves that idea to be wrong.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Faith is God’s gift; it is not something we have or can generate ourselves [see Romans 12:3].

According to the Calvinist God only saved "the elect". This is referred to as "limited atonement". The reason? Because God doesn't give "all men" a measure of faith.

Well, what does Romans 12:3 state?

KJV: "God hath dealt to every man (not just "the elect") the measure of faith."

 

[utilyan]

In defense of Good Works.

All Good works are GOD GIVEN, GOD INSPIRED, GOD DIRECTED, GOD COMMANDED, GOD DESIRED, and LOVE.

Else they are Evil Works.

Calling something Evil Good and something Good Evil is a sin. The Pharisees tried to disqualify Jesus' good works by saying it was diabolic in origin, exactly how a some here would say if they saw an atheist give his life to save another.


Matthew 12

22Then a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute was brought to Jesus, and He healed him, so that the mute man spoke and saw. 23All the crowds were amazed, and were saying, “This man cannot be the Son of David, can he?” 24But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons.”
25And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, “Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26“If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand?

So the comeback here for Jesus was not "i'm divine and my source is good" but rather if I'm evil doing good things then Satan is divided against himself.



Matthew 12
33“Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit. 34“You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart. 35“The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure what is evil.

In other words get your story straight concerning GOOD WORKS.

Good works, LOVE GOD and LOVE NEIGHBOR. I rather do that once for 5 minutes.

You can keep salvation, paradise and eternity.