What's the faith in "faith only"?

Hey bmerr:

Originally posted by bmerr:
Honestly, if I need to be a Greek scholar to read and understand the Bible, then I'm wasting my time. The English works fine.

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I hear that a lot. Translations do a great job of preserving the meaning. However, something is always lost. It is difficult - nay, impossible - to translate everything from Greek into English.

Hence, if you wish only to be edified by God's promises, grace and mercy English does a swell job.

If you want to find out how to inherit eternal life, then English is super.

But for the finer points of theology that only guys like you and I seem to be interested in, then knowledge of the original language is indispensible.

Confusion at the best; heresy at the worst results when these finer points of God's Word are overlooked. Case in point, justification is passive. Passivity is tough to translate into English. Hence, while it is easy to assume activity one would be totally wrong to do so.

You downplay this Greek business because it flatly contradicts your human-centered philosophy. I champion the Greek because it supports justification by faith alone in Jesus' alone.

Your little story about underwear had to come from someone who had a low opinion of the importance of Greek. For me, the opposite is true. No exegesis of any portion of God's Word is valid without full attention to the original language be it Hebrew or Greek.

The perfect tense is the hardest to translate. Many passages that utilize the perfect tense are foundational for OSAS. For example

John 5:24 "Most assuredly I say to you that whoever hears my Word and believes in the One Who sent me has life, and shall not come into judgment but HAS PASSED from death into life.

The bolded words are the Greek Perfect Tense. It shows the enduring results of a past action. This enduring result cannot cease without some direct statement that stops it. Without such a statement, the Greek Perfect Tense is the functional equivalent to "permanent."

You don't like this for you have embraced a system that has overlooked this. OSAS is very biblical!

Lloyd

Faith is believing in God. That means faith is faith in God's Election. That excludes works in and of whatever form or sort because He elected the saved before He even created the world. Salvation is of and by grace, mate! You claim just one of your own works, like love, or faith, and you actually tell God in the face, I don't trust you or your election or your grace. By faith alone!

Lloyd,

bmerr here. I've long since come to realize that you are capable of arguing over my head. That's okay. You've spent a long time educating yourself, and talking over people less educated is a natural result. My dogs don't understand me very often. It's not my fault, they're just not a smart as I am !

But something you said in your last post kind of makes my point for me. You said if one wants to know how to inherit eternal life, the English works great. What more does one need to know? I cannot inherit eternal life without being justified before God.

The English tells me that I cannot be justified by faith only, but by faith made perfect by works (James 2:24). It also tells me I cannot be justified by works of the law (Rom 3:20), or by my own righteousness (Tit 3:5; Is 64:6).

The only kind of work left is obedience to the commands of God. In this case, God would be active in giving man instructions. Those who submit (the passive side) to God's authority by obeying Him, would then be justified.

Contrary to popular opinion, the Bible never teaches salvation or justification by "faith only". It' certainly doesn't "thunder" it! It does, however, teach justification and salvation by faith. There is a difference.

Since English is what I have to work with, it'll have to do for now. In the future I hope to pick up a knowledge of the Greek. I don't expect my beliefs will change, but they might.

Some might say this with sarcasm, or malice, but I sincerely would like you to consider if you are approaching the Bible objectively. No matter how much education one might have, one's personal bias can cloud the meaning of the Bible, and result in only deeper seated error.

The reason I say this is that I used to believe as you do, in nearly every way. I ended up having to explain away so many passages that I started to doubt the Bible as a whole. But when I made the decision that no matter what I had been taught, or by whom, the Bible was going to have the final say, I had to reject many of the things I had believed. In fact, I found out that I hadn't even become a Christian.

I'm concerned for you, Lloyd. As much as anyone else on these boards. I'm sure you're concerned for me as well. Why else would we spend so much time here?

BTW, I'm going in for my third lumbar epidural steroid injection tomorrow morning. I'm hoping for good results.

In Christ,

bmerr