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I want to see an Arminian Exegete this passage

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Calv1, Aug 12, 2017.

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  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I learned from the best, Sensei. ;)
     
    #81 JonC, Aug 13, 2017
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I hate to drop the "W" bomb, but I'm going to see Roger Waters this evening so I'm signing off until tomorrow. I know this is a disappointment (both my absence here and my presence there). Such is life. It disappoints sometimes. But I've found with a little effort we get over it.

    Hasta mañana. Or, to those inside the wall, until tomorrow. :D
     
    #82 JonC, Aug 13, 2017
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  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Romans 3 was written 3000 years ago?
     
    #83 TCassidy, Aug 13, 2017
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  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Okay. How do you "know" Him?

    Which is?

    Then you no longer "know" Him?

    Which is?

    Why not? Does he no longer know he "knows" Christ?

    Why not? Does he forget that he believes?

    Yes. But how does one lose that?

    And how do you know you believe?

    I don't think it is a case of disagreement. It, to me, is a case of trying to understand what you are saying. You haven't said anything specific. Just what appears to me to be a bunch of generalities. :)
     
    #84 TCassidy, Aug 13, 2017
  5. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    C'mon Tom. I know you know better. Romans 3:11 is quoting Psalm 14:2.

    Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
     
    #85 InTheLight, Aug 13, 2017
  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yeah, we all know that. But Paul is not addressing people 1000 years dead. He was addressing people alive at the time of his writing. Psalm 14:2 did not cease to be true when the people of that day died. It was still true in Paul's day. And it is still true today. God's word does not expire. It is as contemporary as tomorrows headlines.
     
    #86 TCassidy, Aug 13, 2017
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  7. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Dojo!... Jon a san... The honorable Brother Glen:D

    Sayonara... See you Tamarra
     
    #87 tyndale1946, Aug 13, 2017
  8. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Paul was addressing the Romans by quoting the psalmist. How many Christian churches had been established at that time? How many people even had an opportunity to seek the resurrected Jesus?

    God's word does not expire, but its application can change. Old Testament rules are an example.

    Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
     
    #88 InTheLight, Aug 13, 2017
  9. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    This is just plain awful exegesis. If this is true, we don't have the 10 commands to go by, seeing they were written to the Jews. The bill of divorce was given to the Jews, too. So, by your application of scripture, we don't have to divorce our spouses, because that decree was given to Israel.

    Paul stated under the inspiration of the Spirit, in NT days, there are NONE who seek God. Why not believe this and accept it?
     
    #89 SovereignGrace, Aug 13, 2017
  10. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Okay...so now divorce is not applicable to us, because it was given to the Jews and its application has changed.

    You are awful at handling God's word. Its sad to behold.
     
    #90 SovereignGrace, Aug 13, 2017
  11. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    I preached a sermon this last Tuesday night from Deuteronomy 6:1-12. I told them that Moses was giving the Jews a history lesson about how when the obeyed God, things went well. When they didn't, things went south in a hurry. That teaching is just as applicable today as it was then.

    But remember, it was ITL who once started a thread about Peter preaching one message to the Jews, and Paul preaching a different message to the Gentiles. Why? Because they were different audiences, per him. That's just awful exegesis, hermeneutics, and eisegesis running wild.

    He has an a la carte' theology, where he goes through the bible and picks and chooses what is acceptable and the rest he tosses to the wayside.
     
    #91 SovereignGrace, Aug 13, 2017
  12. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    You are excellent at putting words into other people's mouths. I said nothing about divorce or the 10 commandments.

    The reality is that verse in Psalms was written 3,000 years ago in an entirely different pre-Christian world to an entirely different audience.

    Another reality is that people nowadays DO seek God. Just look at all the people that attend churches.

    Your theology does not fit reality. You have a problem.

    Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
     
    #92 InTheLight, Aug 13, 2017
  13. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Yes, I threw the subject matter out there for discussion. I was not a proponent of the idea.

    Mirror, mirror...

    Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
     
    #93 InTheLight, Aug 13, 2017
  14. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    You said a different audience, different application. The 10 commands and the decree of divorcement was given to Israel. By using your (il)logic, that's the conclusion of your theology.
     
    #94 SovereignGrace, Aug 13, 2017
  15. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    It's pretty simple, my honest point was to see an Arminian Exegete the passage. Just as I thought no one can. I have much tougher ones, this is a simple one.
     
    #95 Calv1, Aug 13, 2017
  16. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    No Exegesis
     
    #96 Calv1, Aug 13, 2017
  17. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    No Exegesis. I thought so, just a bunch of people changing the subject. Really, really sad that no one can exegete a simple passage like this.
     
    #97 Calv1, Aug 13, 2017
  18. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    I KNEW this would happen, seriously brother it's SAD. They criticize, alter the point, but not one can Exegete this, and as you know this is a simple one. If I put a tough one the insults would just get worse, sad.
     
    #98 Calv1, Aug 13, 2017
  19. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    I guess people just like to talk, I don't see one attempt do you? Why post on a thread if they're just going to talk about other issues?????
     
    #99 Calv1, Aug 13, 2017
  20. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    Right that word in Greek is DRAG. Its the same word used when the woman was DRAGGED to the well. What's fascinating about that to me is that God DOES drag us, I never wanted to be a Christian, I loved sin. He says "I will DRAW them with my lovingkindness".

    The frustrating thing though of course is when people misunderstand it. You've heard it before "Oh God doesn't drag people to Heaven kicking and screaming", no of course He doesn't, He draws us with love. He "Take out our hearts of stone and puts in a heart of flesh", HE DOES THIS, yet people WON'T understand.

    Augustine put it best, "We were made for God, and will not rest until we rest in Him", his point is as we have thirst and water satisfies it, as we have hunger and food satisfies it, so our hearts all have a longing, ONLY GOD can satisfy it, and when He comes into our hearts, we love Him, we can't help but love Him anymore than a thirsty person loves water.

    I'm off topic, but everyone else is, not ONE PERSON CAN EXEGETE that simple passage which is sad, well my brothers can, but no Arminian can, and it's simple. Even the moderators are making up jokes, why do people post if it has nothing to do with the topic??
     
    #100 Calv1, Aug 13, 2017
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