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Featured Why Do Men Hate God's Sovereignty in Election

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by thatbrian, Dec 14, 2017.

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  1. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Another falsehood. All people make choices every day. Even choices regarding whom they will serve.

    What you can't seem to understand is that people can only make choices relative to their natures.

    When I was in high school, (1961), a fellow student wanted to go out for track but he had lost a leg in a mowing accident when he was 6. He could not run. Going out for track was out of the question. It was no longer in his nature to be able to run.

    The same is true of the lost man. He does not desire to serve God. He serves only himself.

    Do not blaspheme God.
     
    #21 TCassidy, Dec 14, 2017
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  2. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Also,

    Matthew 7:16-17 is in regards to FALSE TEACHERS.

    Man, you guys are BAD at proof texting. And you were a seminary prof? That's not a cheap shot, I'm sincere in my concern.
     
    #22 JonShaff, Dec 14, 2017
  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So Christ was wrong in the verses I posted? A corrupt tree CAN bring forth good fruit?

    Ask yourself the question: why did the man save the child?

    Let's use the bible (novel idea!) to find our answer.

    Proverbs 21:4 An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.

    It seems pretty obvious why a high (haughty) look is sin. And why a proud heart is sin. But plowing is good, hard work! How can good hard work be sin?

    Let's examine it.

    Why does the wicked man plow his field? So he can plant his crops.

    Why does he want to plant crops? So he can eat.

    Why does he want to eat? So he can keep up his strength.

    Why does he want to keep up his strength? So he can continue his rebellion against God!

    Can you see the motive of the man who prevented the child from drowning? Is it 100% pure?
     
    #23 TCassidy, Dec 14, 2017
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  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes. Evil people can give good gifts. Why do they do that?
     
    #24 TCassidy, Dec 14, 2017
  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So, evil people are teachers of truth? How does that work?
     
    #25 TCassidy, Dec 14, 2017
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  6. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    I just gave you the context of the passage you quoted. False prophets...

    Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
     
    #26 JonShaff, Dec 14, 2017
  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes. The opposite of a false prophet is a true prophet. How is a lost man a true prophet?
     
    #27 TCassidy, Dec 14, 2017
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Yes they do whether you like it or not.
     
    #28 Revmitchell, Dec 14, 2017
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  9. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    time to give it up. You are making shipwreck of your faith.
     
    #29 JonShaff, Dec 14, 2017
  10. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    You cannot make valid comparisons between physical abilities and spiritual abilities. Neither can you make silly comparisons between physical impossibilities and spiritual abilities.
     
    #30 InTheLight, Dec 14, 2017
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  11. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I'm sorry but none of that makes any sense. Could you restate it in the context of my post?
     
    #31 TCassidy, Dec 14, 2017
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  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    All I did was ask you a question. If you can't answer it just admit you can't answer it,

    If you would like to hear it I would be glad to explain how I believe regarding that subject.
     
    #32 TCassidy, Dec 14, 2017
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  13. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    nature....which is sinful, right
     
    #33 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 14, 2017
  14. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Here's an answer God is never referred to as Sovereign in scripture He is all mighty. There are no restrictions placed on God. God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy. You're saying God can't save or have mercy on who He pleases to have mercy. Your doctrine is a lie.
    MB
     
    #34 MB, Dec 14, 2017
  15. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    You aren't making any sense. That passage pertains to false prophets producing bad fruit, as a true prophet would produce Good fruit. Simple comparison there. Christ is that True prophet who produces good fruit, true Believers, good works.
     
    #35 JonShaff, Dec 14, 2017
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  16. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    A men brother. As always this guy takes everything out of context.
    MB
     
    #36 MB, Dec 14, 2017
  17. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes, and unbelievers produce bad fruit. I don't see the problem.
     
    #37 TCassidy, Dec 14, 2017
  18. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Paragraph 4 is an assumption not a solid motivational understanding.
     
    #38 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 14, 2017
  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    The lost man's nature is certainly in bondage to the law of sin and death.

    The saved man now has, added to the old man, the new man in Christ. What used to be one sided, only evil continually.

    But the new man battles against the old man, and our Christian life becomes a battle between the old and the new. Between good and evil. And the evil often wins by sheer experience!

    Genesis 6:5 Yahweh saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of man’s heart was continually only evil.

    Proverbs 17:11 An evil man seeks only rebellion; therefore a cruel messenger shall be sent against him.
     
    #39 TCassidy, Dec 14, 2017
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  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    It is an illustration. I don't know the motive of the man's heart. But God does and He says it was wicked. :)
     
    #40 TCassidy, Dec 14, 2017
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