Lord, Lord did we not do...?

how do you know that the "knowing in this sense is based on works"? Thats not how it reads in a common sense manner.

It says, despite the fact that you did many good works, the Lord does not KNOW you.

When you KNOW the Lord, as in having a relationship with Him, then He works on both the OUTside AND the INside. Outer works will be present, but inner matters of the heart will not be ignored either.

 

I know that the knowing is based on works because that is what He is basing it on.

Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Despite the fact that you had every good work, if you have not charity it profits you nothing. Good works are not a cover for sin, this is what the Lord is saying. He calls them workers of iniquity, because they are workers of iniquity. Maybe they are super baptists on sunday morning, then in the afternoon they drink a 12 pack while watching the football game. Or perhaps they have a problem with internet pornography. It could be anything.

Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

What is the therefore there for?

 

Luke's parallel account is also quite instructive:

Why do you call Me, `Lord, Lord,' and not DO what I say? Everyone who comes to Me and hears My words and DOES on them, I will show you whom he is like: he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built. But the one who has heard and has not acted accordingly, is like a man who built a house on the ground without any foundation; and the torrent burst against it and immediately it collapsed, and the ruin of that house was great."

Jesus is definitely referring to DOING the works that the Father wills.

 

James,

bmerr here. The way the text reads, it looks like one must do the will of the Father in order to enter into the kingdom of heaven. The kingdom is, at least in part, the church. In 7:24, we see that one must hear and do, as opposed to merely hear and believe. The doing would be as a result of the belief of what one had heard, the works perfecting, or completing the faith (James 2:22).

I've heard that 7:24-27 represents the faithful and the lost at the Judgement, which might explain the "Therefore" in 24 as connecting Jesus' statements in 21-23 with the illustration in 24-27.

You make a good point in saying that good works are not a covering for sin. Many in the world seem to think that they are. I think that's why at so many funerals, mourners say, "Well, he's gone to a better place".

In Christ,

bmerr

 

Applicable in this parable ( who called his own servants ), by being born a Hebrew.

God Bless! </font>[/QUOTE]steaver,

bmerr here. I missed this one. I was reading through some of the older posts on this thread, and wanted to adress this post.

If you are correct in saying that by being born a Hebrew one becomes a servant of the Lord, then all of this discussion is meaningless, since this would only apply to the Jews.

On the other hand, if by means of the new birth one becomes a part of the Israel of God (Gal 6:16), then there is application for Christians, "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel" (Rom 9:6).

Just something to think about.

In Christ,

bmerr

 

Ray,

bmerr here. Did you believe everything your teachers told you? Having spoken, have they made up your mind for all time? Were they not men, like you and I?

Even highly educated men are wrong sometimes, Ray, especially those who have been educated in error. It's got nothing to do with their sincerity, and hats off to them for the time they've put into their education, but a certificate on the wall doesn't make one infallible.

And where are you getting this "clergy/laity" thing from? It's not in the pages of my NT. Even some of the apostles were "unlearned and ignorant men (Acts 4:13). Peter did not lay lofty titles upon Paul when writing of him to 1st century Christians, (though he possibly could have), but simply called him "our beloved brother Paul" (2 Pet 3:15).

How unlike most "scholars" today, who insist on announcing their degrees and letters with every mention of their names! They really ought not think more highly of themselves than they ought to think (Rom 12:3).

Theological cemetaries, I mean, seminaries, are not the only place one can gain a knowledge of the Bible.

In Christ,

bmerr

 

" He came unto his own, and his own recieved him not "(John 1:11).

This doesn't say Israel. Does this mean Gentile converts to Christ? Born again Jews?

God Bless!

 

It means Israel was selected as God's chosen means of evangelism. As Christ said to the Samaritan woman "Salvation is of the Jews".

He came to "HIS OWN and His OWN received Him not".

In Christ,

Bob

 

Right on Bob His own servants the people of Israel!

God Bless!

 

steaver,

bmerr here. The text of John 1:11 says, "He came unto his own...", not, "he came unto his own servants...".

I think "his own" would be the Jews, since He was one Himself. The Jews, for the most part, did not receive Him. "Salvation is of the Jews" in that the main purpose of Israel was to bring forth Christ, the Savior.

But to become one's servant requires something more than a common national heritage. I made this point on another thread concerning how one becomes a servant, and thought it might apply to our discussion.

Rom 6:16 reads,

"Know ye not that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

One becomes another's servant by obeying them. One becomes the servant of Christ by obeying the gospel. Reading on in Rom 6, we find,

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

To be known as a "servant", one must have obeyed at one point. I think it reasonable to apply this understanding to most, if not all, parables concerning servants.

In Christ,

bmerr

 

I think, the reason that some of you use John 1:11 "Christ's own" is speak of Jews, as you use this verse for 'servants' of Matt. 25:30, that you saying that verse is speak for Jews only, not us.

You looking for an excuse reasoning. Actually, you dislike what Christ saying of Matt. 25:14-30, not just only of this passage, also whole chapter 25 of Matthew.

At first, Christ came for his own, that he came to revealed his own, that He is their Messiah. But Jews of Israel were hardened and reject, so, afterward, God added Gentiles unto the Olive Tree, join with believing Jews, as both are become ONE which is in Jesus Christ by through Calvary.

So, therefore, we as Gentiles are now servants of God just same as believing Jews are God's servants. Both are no difference.

Obivously, Matt. 25:14-30 is speaking TOWARD YOU everyone as individual, because we ALL shall appear face the judgment seat of Christ to judge us. No way, that we can afford to ignore or avoid Christ's word with warnings. We have to take heed of his word, and obey him. Christ warns us, in the judgment day, He shall saying to us, "You are wicked and lazy servant". Then shall be cast away into everlasting fire.

You have to accept what Christ saying. I have been resisting or struggle with Matt. 25:14-30 & security salvation for three years. Finally, I determined yield up to Christ's word, and agree with His word, and I am no longer believe in security salvation, but rather follow God's Word than men's teachings. - Colossians 2:8.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

James Newman,

I agree with Joey Faust of his book. That he written talking about warnings for miss the kingdom of God, and many conditional with warnings from the Bible.

I agree with Faust of Matt. 25:30 that a lazy Christian shall be cast away in the hell at the judgement day. But, I disagree with him, that he saying it is a 'temporary' punishment. No way, that he can prove them, but, Matt. 25:30 of 'outer darkness' is so very, very clear speak of everlasting punishment separated from God follow at the judgement day.

There is a fact of about 90% baptists in America, understand of Matt. 25:30 -'outer darkness' is obivously speak of hell, and it is an eternity punishment.

Christ does not saying 'outer dakrness' shall be last for only 1000 years. Neither, Christ saying a lazy Christian shall be finally be released out of the outer darkness beyond the judgement day in the context of Matt. 25:14-30.

Faust doing his guesswork of 'temporary punishment in the hell' in his book is too much, and very logical and flaws. I reject his teachings. I rather follow what the Bible saying than what he saying according Colossians 2:8.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

DeafPosttrib,

bmerr here. Well said, sir. It's hard for folks to give up doctrines that they have been taught by people they trust and love. But staying true to the Bible often demands that we do just that. I did it, myself, and left the Baptist church altogether.

Keep studying! You're doing well.

In Christ,

bmerr

 

Revelation 20:4-5
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

DPT, I think this is just a rabbit trail, but I will go ahead and ask you this question. Who is 'the rest of the dead' in verse 5?

 

James,

bmerr here. My thought is that the "rest of the dead" refers to those who do not obey the gospel and die in their sins. At the return of Christ, they will come forth unto the resurrection (or raising from the dead to life) of damnation (John 5:29).

IMO, the book of Revelation contains TONS of figurative language, and the 1000 years is part of it. I believe it refers to a long, undetermined period of time, and that we are in that time now.

John 5:25-29 serves as Divine commentary on Rev 20:4-15. I think I posted something along these lines on another thread. I'll try to find it.

In Christ,

bmerr

 

James,

bmerr here. This is from the "Questions About the 1000 years reign" thread on page two of the discussion topics.

To All,

bmerr here. Bear with me a minute, please. The text under consideration is tricky, to say the least, and it deserves our careful attention. For the record, I'd like to say that I do not have it "all figured out". However, I believe that many have been convinced of a doctrine that simply is not taught in Scripture. I intend no slight toward those who may be among this number, nor toward those who have taught this doctrine, having been convinced of it themselves.

With this in mind, and with the full assurance that God has given us a Book that we can understand, if we will, I'd like to notice a few things.

There are some things stated, and some things implied in Rev 20:4-15. Things stated include:

- a first resurrection (20:5)
- a second death (20:14)

Things implied include:

- a second resurrection
- a first death

Death is always a separation in the Bible. Either separation of the spirit from the body (James 2:26), separation of man from God due to personal sin (Eph 2:1; Col 2:13), or the final separation of man from God at the Judgement (Rev 20:14-15).

IMO, the implied first death is the separation of man from God due to personal sin. Here's why.

In John 5:25, Jesus said,

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live."

Obviously, a dead body cannot hear anything, right? I don't believe this is a reference to the resurrection of the dead, because Jesus speaks about that later (5:28-29).

The walking dead (in sin) who heard the voice (words) of the Son of God, both Personally, and through His apostles, would live. Of course we all understand that to hear in this context is to hear and believe/obey.

Those who were restored to fellowship with God through their obedience to the gospel would undergo a likeness of Christ's resurrection as they emerged from the watery grave of baptism (Rom 6:3-5).

I think it reasonable to identify this as the stated first resurrection in Rev 20:4-5.

Jesus' words (John 5:28-29) concerning "all that are in the graves" (dead bodies) coming forth refer to the resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous at His 2nd coming.

If this is the case, (and it may not be), it would break down like this:

- first death - separation from God due to personal sin

- first resurrection - returned to friendship with God through obedience to the gospel

- second resurrection - righteous and unrighteous at the 2nd coming

- second death - separation of the wicked from God to the lake of fire

The thousand years would be the NT age, of which we are a part, Christians being a royal priesthood (1 Pet 2:9), or "...priests of God and of Christ...reign[ing] with him a thousand years" (Rev 20:6).

Those are my thoughts on it. Your comments are welcome. I appreciate your consideration.

In Christ,

bmerr

 

James,

bmerr is correct. 'the rest of dead' is speak of people who are not obey the Lord, are not part of the 'first resurrection'-eternal life with Christ, they are not risen of their body(physical) till at the end of the age follow Christ's coming according to John 5:25-27; John 6:39,40,44, & 54.

By the way, Rev. 20:3-5 do not prove anything about the hint of "purgatory", this passage talks about two groups- "the first resrrection"-followers, and "second death" -disobedient people. "Second death" is speak of eternal punishment separated from God, cast into the lake of fire. "The first resurrection" is speak of people who obey and follow Christ have eternal life with Christ. Very simple and plain.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

bmerr,

Well say. Amen.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20- Amen!

 

If the thousand years is figurative, then so is the reigning, the souls that were martyred for Jesus and those that did not take the mark of the beast. In any figurative teaching, we find that even when the subjects are figures, the primary action or warning is literal. But here we don't even have figurative subjects. This passage is plain. On what basis do you insist that the thousand years must be interpreted figuratively?

 

Then where does being beheaded for the witness of Jesus fall?

Could it not be that the dead heard His voice?
1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;