Did God change his mind?

Israel goes back under the "law and Prophet" system of "Leadership" during the trib. (two witnesses, Moses/Elijah)

The "Holy Ghost" (voice of Jesus) is "taken out of the way", (rapture) prior to the AC being revealed.

"Leadership" by both the "L/P" and "HG" does not function at the same time, in the same time frame.

The "L/P" stopped with Jesus, and won't continue until "HE" (HG) leaves.

On the "Sabbath", Jews wasn't allowed to "Carry" anything, Jesus referred to this when he said:

Mt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

God uses the antichrist as a "ROD" to chastise Israel for rejecting him (Jesus) they will suffer the "STRIPES" of God's "ROD" in their "FLESH", (be tortured/killed)

but for "believers", Jesus suffer their "STRIPES" in "HIS FLESH", therefore "Believers" will "Literally"...PASSOVER...this time of Chastisement.

Ps 89:20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:

Ps 89:29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;

31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;

32 Then will I visit their transgression with the ROD, and their iniquity with STRIPES.

Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, (antichrist) the ROD of mine anger, and the staff (leadership) in their hand is mine indignation.

Just as Moses/Arron ROD turned into a "serpent", when cast down to the earth, so does God's rod. (satan)

 

Are you saying cast into the lake of fire, or castaside for hurting the cause of Christ. Christian faith, ituttut

 

All true

 

Paul argues that it is right for those who work in spiritual ministry – to receive perishable – temporal good in fact “a living from the gospel”.

Having made that case – Paul then DENIES that he really wants any of those temporal benefits / rewards /

He claims that he values his “boast” higher than getting the earthly perishable temporal benefit from the church.

Now he will switch to the “Gospel” mission the “Gospel focus” the fact that His preaching of the Gospel of Salvation is such a consuming role that earthly benefit fades. He is under a higher calling

This is key – Paul has just said that his “reward” is to “offer the Gospel without charge”. This is not a setup for saying “I buffet my body and make it my slave lest I CHARGE someone a penny for speaking to them about the Gospel”. His focus has not gone there at all. Rather he is still talking about his boast that he is able to preach the Gospel without reaping the due benefit/reward of earthly perishable gain. And he even counts that fact as “his reward” because it leaves him free from the sense of “owing” anyone anything..

At this point Paul jumps fully into the topic of SALVATION! He argues the point of wining the lost. He shows that his focus and goal is fully set on the salvation that is brought through the preaching of the Gospel!

Wining here is “Wining souls for Christ” in the preaching of the Gospel. Preaching the Gospel to others – resulting in their Salvation!

Paul shows that the “SAVING’ them is the whole point of this Gospel preaching. He preaches the Gospel to others in order to SAVE them. He mentions nothing about those saved getting big houses in heaven nor does he mention what great honor and room-size reward he is seeking in heaven. His entire focus is not on “What perk do I get” but on the great value/reward of SALVATION itself as the goal and objective of the Gospel received when preached “to others”.

Now comes that “unpleasant section” for many where Paul points out the seriousness of this Gospel pursuit for the goal of saving people -- so that I may by all means save some. as he says.

It is as a “fellow partaker of the GOSPEL” that Paul wants to participate in preaching. He then shows that his own example in persuing that goal of being “A fellow partaker of the Gospel” is the standard/model/role-model for the saints. He has left the realm of “I am a leader and Apostle and so I have special rights” to the perspective of WE ALL want to be “Fellow partakers” of the Gospel for as he has just pointed out when the Gospel is received the people are saved. (; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.)

So now in this “fellow partaker of the Gospel” model for ALL that Paul is offering (in the form of his own life example) he shows how it works. He shows the perspective of the saint, the attitude, the focus the Olympic ALL for the Gospel focus that is NEEDED. IN fact he argues that it is critical EVEN for an Apostle for even in this most exaulted case HE is at risk “LEST after preaching the Gospel to other I MYSELF should be disqualified” from that very Gospel!

How instructive!

Yet how fervently ignored by those who find this to be an “unpleasant” section of scripture!

Take each "detail" and show the meaning IN the 1Cor 9 context itself. Let the argument speak for itself IN the text you are exegeting.

Or do you read vs 23-27 and respond with

Paul says

 

Is God referring to "Living/dying", "Spiritually" or "physically"??

No mention is made here of "Salvation", only of "WORKS" that a person can "perform" to "live/die".

Can "WORKS" save a man???

 

That is true.

 

Hi friends,

This is my first mesage on this forum. As I was browsing various discussion threads I have noticed that in many debates it usualy boils down to a point: OSAS. Being a relatively new believer, I just wanted to let you know that I am apalled by this doctrine because it goes so much against everything the bible teaches.

I thought it is believed mostly by American Christians, but I find it to be the pet doctrine of many also here in Austria.

To be honest, I will never understand how anybody can believe this OSAS stuff with so many ifs and warnings in the Bible addressed to believers. God never said salvation unconditional, at least not in my bible.

I am convinced that the same conditions to receive salvation, repentance towards God and faith in Christ, are also required to keep it. And true repentance involves turning from all known sin. If you think this is salvation by works or legalism you'd better revise your theology.

Just to point out one of tha many places in the bible that flatly contradict OSAS, consider the book of Revelation where Jesus himself tells us believers that unless we overcome we will never see heaven.

"He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death."

I would really like to know how an OSAS believer can interpret that. To me, this shows the conditional nature of salvation beyond any reasonable doubt. So much for unconditional security.



[ January 11, 2006, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: Avshalom ]