3rd of 2 Thess. 2:1-4, the Rapture

Ed,

Can you find a verse in Matthew chapter 24 saying that Jesus will come before tribulation?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

Bob.

Let me show you an "error" you'r making in 2 thess.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

First, the rapture is being discussed here then the appearence of the Antichrist.

Let's take it verse at a time.

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only "HE" (holy Ghost) who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

And then shall that Wicked be revealed

The "Sequence" here is the removable of the Holy Ghost" (church rapture)AND THEN that is "AFTERWARDS", the AC is revealed,

But here's what I want you to focus on,

whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

After the rapture, the AC is revealed, so between the AC being revealed and Jesus destroying him with the brightness of his coming, the "TRIBULATION PERIOD OCCURS".

Rapture...AC revealed...Trib period...AC destroy.
Jesus.....AC revealed...Trib period...Jesus.

In the rapture, the world doesn't "SEE" Jesus, twinkling of an eye.

When he returns to destroys the AC, the whole world "sees" him.

When Jesus returns and destroys the "AC" is the "FIRST RESURRECTION".

You're attempting to "COMBINE" both the "rapture/AC revealed" and "destroying the AC" into "ONE EVENT", can't be, the "TRIB PERIOD" must occur "BETWEEN" them.

Matt 24 describes the event of "destroying the AC", not the rapture, you have to remember that the rapture "WAS NOT" revealed "BY JESUS", but "LATER", by "PAUL".

Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:

Matt 24 is written to those who will enter the trib, Israel mainly, that's why it is "tied" to their OT and "Daniel's prophecy" of 70 weeks.

The church had no part in the first 69 weeks, an neither does it have a part in the 70th week.

Here again, the "TRINITY" explain "WHO" (God/Jesus) is dealing with "WHO". (church/Israel)

 

Me4Him,

Later tonight, I will discuss on 2 Thess. 2:6-8 much more deep what Paul was talking about. This passage have do nothing with the depart of the Holy Spirit, this passage talking about Satan. I will explaining on this tonight.

By the way, my home will have a big winter storm!!! Can't wait to see lot of snow!

In Christ
R~ev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

WHO said anything about the "Holy Spirit" departing??

The "HOLY GHOST" is the "Spirit" leading the church, and it is "Unique" to the Church.

The "Holy Spirit" leads "ISRAEL", not the "Church".

Mercy, where's your "TRINITY TRAINING"????

Better "YOU" than "ME", I'm a "SOUTHERN BOY",
myself, I like "4 wheelers", not "Snowmobiles".

Nowatimean, VERN???

Where in/around Detroit do you live, I'm "VERY" familar with that area, especially the Auto plants.

 

#1 The sequence is preserved.

#2. The great timeline of 2000 years of Christian history is covered in Matt 24 and "yes" that includes the many centuries of the dark ages.

#3. No slicing and dicing.

Not until the Gospel has gone into the entire world - will Christ come - and this was spoken by Christ pre-cross and then published by Matt post-cross - as a "future event". The Gospel going into all the world - an event we "Still" wait for.

Where was “the holy place” in the days of Christ – was it outside of the city in the burial grounds?

The persecution of Christians by the Pagan Roman empire - and then persecution of Christians by the Holy Roman Empire - "The Dark Ages" - represents centuries of killing Christians - unprecidented in extent and length of time - in all of history.

This non-SDA link shows a chronology of the Matt 24 events that DOES have the 1260 years of the dark ages matched with the expected tribulation mentioned in Matt 24.
http://www.bibleexplained.com/Gospels/Matt/mt21-25/Mt24.htm

The visibility of cloud-to-could lightning - from one end of heaven to the other - is the "comparison" made with the 2nd coming.

The coming is in the clouds - just as the lightning and just as the "signs".

These Matt 24 events are recorded in the encyclopedia. First we note that the 1260 years of the dark ages ends in the 1700's. Then we notice the Lisbon earthquake, 1755, the dark day in the Northwestern US, 1780, and the "falling" of the stars, 1833 – all follow the end of that tribulation period.

- Stars of heaven shall fall No shower from the meteor belt activated in 1833 has been as great as as that one. This observation was noted in the magazine, Sky and Telescope around 1997. (still true as of 2003).

For a summary of signs of the end -- see
http://www.present-truth.org/signs-heavens.htm

For a list of historic quotes about the Dark Day and falling stars –
http://www.temcat.com/Temcats-studies/exceptwe.htm

Although Matt 24 and these notes above point out that the major centuries long tribulation ended with the events described above in history – still there is another tribulation period beyond this 1260 year great historic time of persecution. This shorter tribulation is also included in the Matt 24 concept of “tribulation preceding the 2nd coming”. It is seen in Rev 16 as the time of the 7 last plagues and in Rev 12-14 as the time of the Mark of the Beast.

Christ comes "IN the clouds of the Sky" with "GREAT power and Great Glory". And is seen vividly just as lightning is seen vividly.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

World wide destruction of the flood is as the world wide event of the Son of Man -

2Peter 3 makes the same point - that just as the earth was destroyed by water - so it is to be destroyed by Fire at "the coming" of Christ - "His return" as Peter calls it.

 

The question is asked as to how this fits with the future predicted in 2Thess 2:1-7 where the "man of sin" causes all to fall that do not "have a love of the truth".

The answer is -- "perfectly".

In Both Matt 24 and 2Thess 2 we see the same thing presented PRIOR to the return of Christ in the air to "receive us to Himself" and take us to that "place He has prepared for us" in His Father's house.

And THEN we see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven - (as described in Matt 24 FUTURE to th writing of that Gospel).

In the same way - before the return of Christ we ALSO see the deception that is predicted (future to Paul's day)

The falling away of vs 1-4 came with the fall of the Christian church into the form of the RCC, and persecution of the saints by the church during the dark ages.

But the "Great deception" described in both 2Thess 2 and in Matt 24 that comes at the end and BEFORE the return of Christ - has yet to take place.

So to add to the sequence above ...

0. The Christian church continues -- You are here

1. The great apostacy of the dark ages (2Thess 2:2-4)
2. The Seven last Plagues (Rev 16)
3. The GREAT deception - (Matt 24, 2Thess 2)
4. The 2nd Coming (the return of Christ APPEARING in the air) (Rev 19, 1Thess 4)
5. The resurrection of the Righteous (John 5, Rev 20, 1Thess 4) "which is the FIRST resurrection".
6. Saints raptured up in the air to be with Christ (1Thess 4)

7. The literal millennium - (Rev 20)
8. The 2nd resurrection (John 5, Rev 20) of "wicked only" over whom the 2nd death DOES have power.
9. The Lake of Fire event (Rev 20)
10. The New heavens and New Earth (Rev 21)

Exactly as the Bible described it - in the same order -- all literally true.

Resurrection Counting

Some are asking why John writing at Patmos - looking into the future -- is seeing the Rev 20 event at the Rev 19 2nd coming as the "FIRST resurrection".

They wonder why that is the FIRST resurrection in the future for NT saints.

They ask Why John looking into the future at "things which must shortly come to pass" did not see - "The resurrection of Christ" and also the OT saints raised in Matt 27 or the resurrection of Jarius' daughter etc.

Yet it is actually quite obvious and clear why those PAST resurrections do not appear as THE FIRST one in the FUTURE as John looks down to the end of time.

 

Ed - then you say your view does not allow for the Bible points listed above

An interesting "statement" on your part but the Bible points listed above remain.

Here is another one on your part

The second advent will start some day - we know that. The fact the we don't have an exact date for that start does not eliminate the texts already listed and therefore does not support your argument.

You are stating a nonsequitter as if that supports your point.

Correction. Daniel 9 speaks first of 70 YEARS timeline of Jeremiah and then of the 70 weeks (prophetic weeks - so 490 YEARS) timeline of Daniel.

"You" then want to slice dice chop and slice this amazing messianic Bible timeline so that NO EVENT about the messiah that IT LISTS remains IN the timeline!!

How tragic!

You want to take the last week and chop it off from the timeline, insert an unknown gap of time and land it at the end of the world! ALL this to avoid the messianic details being INSIDE the timeline??!!! OR all this to insert the antichrist into the timeline instead of the Messiah ??

How tragic!

In any case - nothing you have given here actually supports your objections to the texts given above showing the clear, obvious and explicit sequence of scripture.

0. church age continues – you are here
1. Tribulation time
2. Second Advent of Jesus event (1Thess 4, Rev 19)
2.A The FIRST resurrection (Rev 20) of the blessed and holy at Christ's appearing in Rev 19 - Is the same as the resurrection at Christ's return in 1Thess 4.
2.B. Saints taken to heaven as promised in John 14
3. literal millennium spent in heaven with Christ (Rev 20)

In Christ,

Bob

 

Rev 19 says that the living wicked are destroyed by fire and by the sword that comes from Christ “a the coming of the Lord” – it says “The rest were killed by the sword” that comes from Christ.

At that time Christ raptures the church (as He promised in John 14) and we are taken to heaven both the living AND the dead (raised at the First Resurrection). So what about the earth? Does the Bible describe earth as left without humans, dead corpses from one end of earth to another? No one left to bury the dead? Cities all destroyed? Really?

Millennium – a time without a single human remaining alive. Not a glorious place to live - but a
place where birds feeding on rotting corpses of mankind. And yet it is temporary – only lasting for 1000 years.

It is obviously a World Wide Calamity – World Wide catastrophe

And yet this is “before” the Great White Throne judgment and the final burning in the lake of Fire and brimstone of all raised in the 2nd resurrection – who then suffer the 2nd death – which is the lake of fire and brimstone. So this condition is indeed “temporary”.

Those who reject the millenium or the first resurrection rapture described in Rev 20 often declare that such conditions as we see described here -
can not exist and should be ignored.

This feast of the birds we see described again in Rev 19 where the lamb destroys certain of mankind

 

Hardly misleading to note the obvious. That both timelines are presented -- the 70 years of Jeremiah and the 70 weeks of Daniel (the 490 year timeline).

What is misleading is your "assumption" that timelines of scripture can be chopped, sliced, diced and hacked into disconnected pieces whenever the traditions of man "need them" to be.

That is not true of ANY timeline in ALL OF scripture!!

You merely "assume" you can do it - and do not even blink as your tradition requires you to slice away at a Bible timeline!!

You claim that because the timeline is SHOWN to have a number of different events happening at each stage of the timeline (7 days of creation also come to mind here as well) you are free to slice and dice it's segements - disconnecting them, inserting undefined gaps of time - destroying the total timeline and reducing it to "still intact" mini-timelines that fit your tradition.

So where is the "gap of undefined time" that you inserted between the first 7 weeks (49 years) of this single 490 year timeline and then next 52 weeks (374 years) of time?

Answer? Nowhere! Your tradition did not require you to insert a gap of undefined time there - so you did not! It is only in the last week - the one WITH ALL the MESSIANIC EVENTS in it that you needed to disconnect from the 69 weeks so you could avoid the messianic events so critical to Daniel and the Gospel!

In Christ,

Bob

 

Daniel 9 starts with a 70 year timeline prophecy given by Jeremiah. This timeline prophecy of 70 years – LIKE ALL timeline prophecies in scripture, is contiguous! IF Daniel had the problem of “undefined units of time inserted into the timeline” he could have no predictable use of the timeline as a time “ruler” with a start and end point and a duration that is EXACTLY as specified in the prophecy. Hence we see no “shattering and scattering” of Bible timelines – not even the 70 years of Jeremiah!.

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Seventy Weeks and the Messiah


Dan 9: 24 "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city,

Here in Daniel we find the 70 week prophetic time span of (70 prophetic weeks, 490 literal years). This time span is explicitly quantified by the number 70 (70weeks) just as the other time span of Daniel 9 - the 70 year time span in Dan 9:2 was explicitly quantified by the number 70.

In the remaining verses of Daniel 9 we will see the single time span of 70 weeks detailed into a timeline covering the entire 490 year period.

This prophetic timeline that forms that complete contiguous time span of 70 weeks works exactly as all other Bible time spans with numeric values encompassing the entire span of time. The 70 years of Jeremiah mentioned in Dan 9:2 show a prophetic span of time without gaps. The 400 years of Genesis 15:13 also show a span of time that is reliable and valid for calculating and predicting events in the timeline associated with that span of time.

IF (as some suppose in recent times) a time span could be injected with "undefined gaps of time" - then the Jews might still be in Babylon using the 70 years of Daniel 9:2 infested with gaps. Or the Hebrews might still be enslaved in Egypt using the 400 years of Genesis 15:13 and injecting "undefined gaps of time" into it.

Inserting gaps into time spans that are numerically quantified as we see with the 70 years and the 70 weeks - voids the entire span of time as a reliable source of information and prophecy. IF a builder contracts to build your house in 3 months but then injects "undefined gaps of time" between the 2nd and 3rd month - the entire 3 month contract is made void. IT could be 3 years or 3 decades as long as "gaps of time of undefined duration' are allowed.

IN the same way - inserting such "Gaps of time" would extend out the 7 day timeline of Genesis 1-2:3 to any length of time one is inclined to interject. Injecting gaps into quantified time spans is classic eisegesis.

All agree that "for your people" refers to the Jews as the "Holy nation, royal priesthood, chosen by God" - the Hebrew nation church of Israel. The time span is specifically assigned to Israel - literally.

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Dan 9:24 (continued)
Kalah (3615) to finish the transgression, Tamam(8552) to make an end of sin,

Tamam (8552) "end", "finish" "complete", "spent"
Kalah (3615) "finish" (Ezra 1:1) "Fulfill" Gen 15 "complete" - "come to an end"
[/b]

Here Daniel predicts that during this 490 year span of time - they will complete the measure of their sin and guilt.

The sense of Kalay in Dan 9 used in prophecy and tied to a length of time for sin (a time span) is the same as we find it in Genesis 15 -

Gen 15:
13 God said to Abram, "Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, where (17) they will be enslaved and oppressed four hundred years.
14 "But I will also judge the nation whom they will serve, and afterward they will come out with many possessions.
15 "As for you, (20) you shall go to your fathers in peace; you will be buried at a good old age.
16 "Then in (21) the fourth generation they will return here, for the iniquity of the Amorite is not yet (Kalah)complete."

Just as the Amorites were given a 400 year time span to fill up the measure of their iniquity - so Israel is given 490 years from the time of the decree listed in Daniel 9 to complete their measure of iniquity.

The measure of guilt was fast filling in the days of Christ - He predicts they will fill it up in that generation

Paul declares that they had already filled up their measure of sin and iniquity by the time of his ministry.

 

This 70 week prophetic span of time (490 literal years) would bring in the Messiah and fulfill all righteousness - fulfilling all vision and prophecy pertaining to Israel and the Messiah during this 490 year span of time.

The final atonement for sin - through the Messiah - fhe focus of the nation's festivals and religious services..

1John 2:2 – Christ is the atoning sacrifice for our sins and the sins of the whole world.

To bring in "everlasting righteousness"
Matt 3:15 - Christ "fulfilled all righteousness" when He came.

Romans 3:
21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

The completion of all vision and prophecy pertaining to the Messiah and the nation of Israel.
All prophecy and vision pertaining to Israel's Messiah - the Savior of the World

=============================================
[
b]Daniel 9:24[/b] and to anoint the most holy place.

During this 490 year span of time the Most Holy place in heaven - the temple built by God "without hands", Christ (the Messiah the Anointed one) would anoint the most holy place.

Christ is seen in Hebrews 9 to anoint the most Holy Place and to offer the “one sacrifice” that obsoletes all others. Putting an end to sacrifice and offering. His alone is the only real sacrifice for the blood of bulls and goats could never take away sins.

 

Christ (Hebrew Messiah) – is the “anointed one”. This was fulfilled at His baptism.

And so when Christ begins His ministry He announced that prophetic time had been fulfilled

Christ is the anointed one – anointed by the Holy Spirit.

Here we see the timeline broken down into discrete segments - each following the other. 7 weeks (49 years) assigned to the rebuilding of Jerusalem - followed by 62 weeks making a total of 69 weeks (483 literal years) and the beginning of the mission of the "anointed one" the Messiah.

And so when Christ begins His ministry He announced that prophetic time had been fulfilled


Mark 1:15 - "The Kingdom of God is at hand – the time is fulfilled"

And so begins Christ's 3.5 year ministry in fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy.

So far the exact matching anti-type fulfillment in the NT is far more "explicit" in fulfilling the prophetic components of Daniel 9 - using this explicit and direct approach - than all other proposed solutions. None of them contain the direct references and language for Daniel 9 as we have seen here so far.

</font>[/QUOTE]===================================
But what happens "after the 483 years" - "after the 69 weeks" - "after the 7 plus 62 weeks" of prophetic time?

Again - using the Explicit language of the text - instead of the suppositions so common today.

After 7+62 weeks (After the 69 weeks) – comes the 70th week. In that Week the Messiah is cut off. Still many views depend on ignoring this key fact and reading “instead” that “at or near the END of the 69th week the Messiah is cut off”

Isaiah sees this same crucifixion event.

Instead of pointing us to an undefined gap of time as the event that follows "AFTER" the 69 weeks - Daniel's prophecy Continues on the SAME timeline - through the 490 years timeline. The 69 weeks takes us TO the advent of the Messiah and then After that 483 year boundary - comes the events of the Messiah in that last week - in the last 7 years in the week that follows the 69th week -- and what follows is the cross.

 

Certainly it is agreed that "After the 69th week" Christ was crucified - in fact He was crucified in the midst of the 70th week which also meant the sacrifices were at an end.

Notice here that there are TWO actors. The Messiah (who will be cut off) and the PEOPLE of the prince who is to come.

AND after that - (in fact long after that) - the city and the sanctuary were destroyed by the people of Rome - the Roman army (70 A. D) but that is another event AFTER the 69th week and After the cross and After even the 70th week.

But in the NT - it is the Jews THEMSELVES that bring about the destruction of the city according to Christ's own statements. The people of the Prince who is to come - Messiah the Prince - His people are the Jews and the NT declares that THEY were the "People" that would not let God spare the city.

In John 1 we are told that the "people of Messiah the Prince" are the Jews. "HE came unto His own and His own received Him not". Isaiah 9:6 foretells the same message of the Messiah as coming prince - Dan 9:25

In Mat 23:37-38 we are told that Christ came to save the city and the nation but the "people of the prince" would not have it.

When Christ weeps over the city He says - the city is destroyed because of a specific reason relating to the people of the prince..

Daniel uses the symbol for war "a flood" and declares that war and desolation are "Decreed". Indeed Moses did predict that just such a result would occur.

The "house left desolate" Matt 23:38 is a direct fulfillment of what "is decreed" by God
1Kings 9:6-7, Jer 22:5, Micah 3:11-12, Ezek 11:21-23.

========================================================

(Shall make a covenant Stronger – firm?)

NKJV 27Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;

YLT – Youngs Literal Translation
27And He hath strengthened a covenant with many -- one week,


”He hath strengthened a covenant” – this “HE” is a reference to vs 26. In vs 26 we have only two choices – it can be “Messiah the Prince” or it can be the other actor in vs 26 “The PEOPLE of the prince who is to come”. The fact that this is singular means that it can not be “THE PEOPLE of the prince who is to come”. So that leaves only “the MESSIAH” as the proper antecedent to the pronoun “he”.

Daniel is told that the period of "strengthening" the covenant last for the entire 7 years - for the entire 70th week that follows the 69th week. The historicist messianic view presented here promotes the full 7 year period as the time when the covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-32 (Hebrews 8:8-12) is being "Confirmed" and strengthened.

Christ says explicitly that the work of the Messiah is very much tied to the covenant

At the start of Christ’s ministry – at the sermon on the mount Christ provides the blessings (Matt 5:3-11) and the curses (Matt 7:13-27) and affirms His own Law already given (Matt 5:21-48) declaring them to be unbreakable – He adds even deeper “stronger” meaning to the ones already in place (Matt 6:19-7:11)

This is in direct parallel to Moses giving the Covenant to Israel with the blessing and curse and the Law of God defined.

(Notice that IN the words of the New Covenant - the Law of the New Covenant is the existing moral code defining sin and rebellion -- Christ the Creator’s moral law known and in force at the time of Jeremiah )

#1. God’s Law- is still in place even in the New Covenant – it is that same law “Written on the heart”.

#2. This covenant is in place while God’s promise to Israel is in place that He would forgive them for their rebellion and would not cast them off.

#3. Christ comes to strengthen that Covenant – already in place – with promises to Israel already in place – with the Jer 31 promise of the city of Jeremiah's day rebuilt – already in place in Christ's day.

Peter shows this strengthening of existing salvation covenants, laws and promises in his letter to the church. Peter declares that this is the subject of the OT – this the great

Peter declares salvation’s covenantal promises of the OT to be “made more sure” in the fact of “seeing Christ” ministry during the time of His first coming.

Matt 26:28 "This is My blood of the Covenant", which is shed on behalf of Many for the forgiveness of sins"

1Cor 11:25 "This cup IS the New Covenant in My blood".

2Cor 3 tells us that it is the New Covenant alone that is "the ministry of righteousness" and "the covenant that gives life" .

Galatians 1:6-9 tells us that there has been only one gospel. And the message of the New Covenant alone is life, forgiveness and restored fellowship with God as we see it in Heb 8:8-12).

At the start of Christ's ministry we have the covenant "strengthened" in the form of the Long promised Messiah of the New Covenant finally arriving.

In the middle of "the week" of seven years we have the New Covenant "strengthened" in the form of the atoning sacrifice being made.

Then in the last 3.5 years we have it "strengthened" in the form of the full message of the atoning sacrifice of the Messiah preached in its fullness to the Hebrew nation church - the "Holy Nation" "Royal Priesthood" - "People for God's own possession".

At each step the covenant is strengthened until it reaches its complete zenith of proclamation to the Hebrews.

=====================================================

Daniel 9:27 in the middle of the week He will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering;

Here we do not see "the covenant ended" - rather the covenant is strengthened for the full 7 years. What we see is that the sacrifices of the OT Hebrew nation church - end in the middle of the week. THe Messiah's atoning sacrifice brings about the end of sacrifices. So DID the Messiah put a STOP to sacrifices and offerings (from God’s POV) when He came – but only in the midst of the week (3.5 years into His ministry)?

Heb 10
4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says, "" SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME;
6 IN WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE TAKEN NO PLEASURE.
...
9 then He said, "" BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL.'' He takes away the first in order to establish the second.
10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
...
16 "" THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,'' He then says,
17 "" AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.''
18 Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.

Heb 7
12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also.
13 For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests.
...
19 (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

Daniel's prophecy highlights one of the key gospel doctrines regarding the sacrificial system in relationship to the atoning death of the Messiah. Here we see that the sacrifices themselves would end - as they are merely shadows pointing TO the work of the Messiah (Col 2:17).

ONE alternative to this gospel central view - is that the event being highlighted (in this epic prophecy regarding the coming Messiah in 480 years) - is that the minor aspect of the Roman people and the Roman Caesar as they stop the defunct worship practices of an apostate Jewish church about 40 years after the Messiah negates their usefulness.

(Truly a trivialization of the mammoth gospel themes that the first view highlights in Daniel 9.) This view bypasses the aspect of the Romans act of slaughtering the Jews - and focuses instead on the fact that this stops sacrifices that are already made void and made defunct by the Messiah some 40 years prior to this.

Another even less useful concept is that this key segment of Daniel's prophecy focused on an insignificant and pointless act of a future Antichrist at the end of time who stops Jewish animal sacrifices already made void some 2000 years prior to that by the Messiah and already Stopped by the Romans 2000 years prior.. (One wonders if the antichrist is to be applauded for that or criticized).

The double problem in this view is that stopping what Christ already made void is pointless just as stopping what was Already Stopped is pointless. So you must also invent an entirely NEW imaginative story line to precede this event. One where God re-instituting the defunct "Shadows" sacrifices that pointed FORWARD to Christ's first coming. This means trading the more gospel centric view of Christ as the antitype for all Hebrew temple sacrifices and replacing that with this anti-Christ centric view of sacrifices-resumed then-stopped-again -- hard to swallow by every standard.

 

God inserted "no gaps" between the 7 weeks and the 62 weeks. Did you? (no? Why not?)

God inserted "no gaps" between the 62 weeks and the last 1 week. Did you? (yes? Why here?)

NO timeline in ALL of scripture works by chopping hacking and slicing it into disconnected pieces. God did not do that in Dan 9 with EITHER the 70 weeks OR the 70 years timelines!!

How can that just be "ignored"??

In Christ,

Bob

 

Martin Luther Comments on Daniel 9 and the 70 weeks (490 years)
&lt;&lt;Agrees to the harmony of scripture in leaving this 490 timeline in tact with the 70th week still connected to the timeline!&gt;&gt;
http://www.studylight.org/com/mhc-com/view.cgi?book=da&chapter=009

 

Matthew Henry agrees with Martin Luther that the 490 year timeline in Daniel 9 is to be preserved, intact (not sliced, diced, chopped and dismembered for man’s tradition)

http://bible1.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/MatthewHenryConcise/mhc-con.cgi?book=da&chapter=009

 

John Wesley's Explanatory Notes
on the Whole Bible
Daniel Chapter 9

&lt;&lt;Wesley agrees with Martin Luther and Matthew Henry that the 490 year timeline remains in tact and that the Messiah is the focus confirming the covenant and stopping sacrifices – instead of an end time antichrist taking Christ’s role from this prophecy in slice and dice chop and hack of the 490 year timeline’s last 7 years.&gt;&gt;

http://www.studylight.org/com/wen/view.cgi?book=da&chapter=009