Leaning Calvinist, Push me in, or Pull me back

So you jump back and forth between Hebrews 2:9 and John 10 then jump over to Luke 15 and mash them all together, completely ignoring contexts, purpose of the various passages, etc. just take a couple words from here and stick them over there and then add this little piece from here and we got John 10 somehow transposed with Hebrews 2, so now we apply seed of Abraham to John 10, and lost sheep in Luke 15 negates Jesus' statement in John 10 that His sheep listen to His voice and follow Him

Luke 15 is a parable, and I already expained the purpose of that parable, which purpose you completely ignore in your exegesis...

Hey, let's do this right. Instead of turning the Bible into a gholash of take part of this passage and shoehorn it in to this passage, which is TERRIBLE exegesis, let's go though one passage at a time. Which do you want to do first? John 10, Hebrews 2, or some other? How about Luke 15, since you seem to have missed the whole point of that chapter? I'll let you start if you want to do it

And your claim that I said God made people goats is an abhorrent lie. Go back and read my post again.

 

Ok, let's talk sheep here, iconoclast.

Lost sheep of the house of Israel- they are called sheep because they are a people of a nation IN COVENANT with God. The phrase lost sheep here DOES NOT APPLY to people who were strangers and aliens from the Commonwealth of God, or pre new covenant gentiles.

Unless you are a Jew living before the New Covenant, you are not a sheep in the way this verse is talking about

This is not talking about people being sheep in the same sense as John 10.

Parable of the lost sheep. The purpose of this parable IS NOT to teach Unconditional Election, and you are ABUSING the text when you rip it out of context to try to make it say that. Let's look at the occasion and purpose of the parable

Occasion. Many publicans and sinners came to Jesus and the Pharisees murmured that He received such

Three stories with ONE Meaning. Lost sheep, lost coin, lost son

Elements of the parable

A. Someone has a prized possession
B the prized possession is lost
C. A search for it ensues
D. The prize is found
E. The finder invites his/her friends to rejoice with them
F. Great joy

The last story (about He prodigal son) is open ended because instead of rejoicing that the prodigal brother is home, the older brother is angry and jealous. The Father goes to the angry son and urges him to rejoice at the recovery of his brother.

The point is clear. Jesus is saying that if their hearts were right, they would be rejoicing over the salvation of the publicans and sinners.

The three stories must be read together and compared to understand the actual point

So you are basically using prooftexts while ignoring the context, setting, purpose, and intended message of the texts

That is a sign that you are using the Bible to prop up your pet doctrine instead of letting the Bible determine your doctrine

Every time I read the Bible, I try my best to come to it with nothing in my hands so that I can receive what it has for me.

 

This is the god of your imagination...you ignore when passages are explained to you and instead deflect away and answer no questions....come back when you get serious....or hold your error as you wish.

 

Here you show you were not at all sincere...you lack comprehension, hide behind your dispensational error, and man centered theology...
the fact that you cannot begin to understand eph2;1-4 tells me what i need to know...you are clueless and a poser...bye bye...

 

Tell me what I posted that you claim is unbiblical? Also, please check post 142

 

"glad4mercy,
This is posted for the readers to see the foolishness involved when someone opposes themselves in an effort to resist truth...

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You hate the truth of election unto salvation, you hate the truth, other than that...your just fine.

God is very willing that multitudes perish
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

God is very willing that multitudes are cast into the second death.
NOTICE THE SHEEP ARE NOT JEWS ONLY AS SOME CONTEND....

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God takes no delight in the perishing, but they will be cast into second death

You are the one who introduced that idea here...you are blaming God for mans sin in doing this.

God is good to all men.
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Instead of posting this error, read what was offered instead of skipping past it with no understanding.

 

Dispensational error- so you think when the prophets talk about useless shepherds and lost sheep, it's talking about Gentiles?

Man centered- nothing I said was man centered. I think a theology that teaches that God does not have to coerce people to love Him, but rather They love Him because He revealed Himself to them, and they found Him to be lovely is far more God honoring

I understand Ephesians 2:1-4. I was dead, completely and totally separated from God who is life. He made me alive with Christ, etc. I believe the same you do on that.

Calvin understood the passage too. Check his commentary on it. Nothing about being dragged. His exegesis was that salvation is the gift and faith is the means of attaining it.

Go read the section on Ephesians 2:--10 in Calvins commentary. I agree with everything he wrote there. So if I don't understand it, neither did he.

How is it that I don't understand Ephesians 2, when the guy your tradition is named after exegetes the passage exactly the way I understand it.

Maybe you're more Calvinist then Calvin was

 

look carefully at Mt 25...the sheep are not just jews...they are from all nations, the white throne judgment is not just jews being judged.....saved gentiles are among the sheep given from the Father

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

 

Typical Calvinist response when backed into a corner is to lash out at the person exposing their errors.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

 

here was your response to me on eph 2:1-3 when you missed the passage;
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??? i explained it was a sheep , a lost sheep who was found because of God's action....
Most of you guys do not understand calvin when you attempt to quote Him, and I do not care what he said here...he is not in this discussion.

 

Identifying the source of the error can help him find the cure...your drive by post puts you in good company with RM... that is a typical non response by you, because you have nothing on this...
if any lashing out is going on, it is because of the hypocritical two faced activity taking place.

What post did I jump to luke 15...give me a post number on that...or read what i did post, also explain hebrews 2;9-16...go ahead....

 

There you go mixing passages with no regard to context. No one ever said the sheep in Matthew 25 were only Jews. Completely different context than the passages about the lost sheep OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL. Matthew 25 is talking about THE NATIONS. The lost sheep of the house of Israel is talking about Jews.

Totally different contexts

Like I said, you are taking passages out of context and putting them into different contexts. I referred to passages about the lost sheep of Israel and you dragged Matthew 25 over and jammed it and crammed it in to those passages that mention the lost sheep of Israel to whom Jesus came to first.

As to the rest, yes God is willing to punish unbelievers for their unbelief, the same way He was willing for people to die in the Assyrian and Babylonian captivity. But He did not take pleasure in it, but took pleasure when the sinner turned and lived, as I said.

You are confusing the choices God makes with the ones man makes. Man chooses death, God does not choose it for him

 

This might be too much for you but,

The kingdom was first being offered to Israel...primarily.....

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

then the samaritans, then the gentiles....

46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

 

Where does Ephesians 2 say we were a sheep when we were not listening to His voice and following Him?

I was not a lost sheep of the house of Israel and I was not a John 10 sheep, nor was I a Matthew 25 sheep when I was dead in trespasses and sins

I do admit to being a Luke 15 sheep. So that helps.

All of these passages are in different contexts with different meanings. You can't stick them all in a blender and make an amalgate interpretation. Each carries its own unique and beautiful meaning

 

There are sheep and goats among the House of israel, the samaritans, the gentiles....for the purpose of the discussion...it has no bearing on it at all....
all the elect were given to Jesus before time....

 

Just food for thought. Consider each passage for its own meaning, especially when it is in a different setting and context before you examine it in light of other passages

 

look...let me simplify it...Eph 1

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,


This is speaking of ALL the Sheep....that will be found on the last day.
IT does not use the word sheep here.....but that is who it is speaking of...

SHEEP equals Believers
believers are elect sheep, Wheat,
sheep equals wheat
wheat equals believers
Sheep are adopted as Children
Wheat are adopted as Children
the Elect are adopted
These persons each and everyone will, be found In saving union IN Christ...

Goats are not...they are not included in any of this...we do not jump back and forth...from goat to sheep, sheep to goat...no.....
The good shepherd seeks and saves All his sheep...

I asked you for one verse where Jesus delares he is seeking goats?
or that he died for goats...just one.

 

as if I have not done this??? you and others try to deflect away from the truth by fragmenting it.

 

You conflated the meaning of "lost sheep of Israel" with the sheep of the judgement of the nations, to begin with.

You also ignored the setting and purpose of the lost sheep parable.

That's ok. We all do it from time to time when we "prooftext". That's why prooftexting is not a good way to build or discuss doctrine

Btw, I do not hate the doctrine of Election. NOTHING I have said opposes the doctrine of election. Go back and read.

I've only been arguing against DOUBLE PREDESTINATION.

 

what post did I mention the lost sheep parable?

where is the verse where people are speaking of getting goats saved?