Israel?

The contract with Abraham and Sara did not end at the Cross. It was everlasting. It applied to Jews who were physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Those people are still alive physically and their contract with God says that the land belongs to them. You have no Scripture to show that the contract required circumcision because the contract is short and sweet: And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land....

You yourself, 1689Dave, with all due respect have no authority to alter this contract in any way.

 

Are you upholding the actions of the nazi Roman state? The British mandate that ended May 14, 1948, seventy years ago.

 

Dave

You said: Since those born into Isaac's/Jacob's families needed to be circumcised or else be broken off, circumcision, not blood made one a physical Jew or physical member of Israel. When Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, he abolished and phased out physical Israel culminating in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

You aren't telling the truth. The apostle Paul clearly said, Romans 9:3-5 3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen."

Pauls attitude towards his Jewish brethren was much different than yours. Though he recognized that they (most of them) were in rebellion and unbelief towards Christ he still recognized that they were the children of the promise and that the new covenant will some day be applied to them as it is for us as Christians.

The Lord only cut off Israel until the time of restoration and the time of Jacob's trouble comes to an end.

You said, These were the broken off Jews Paul speaks of in Romans 11.

They will be rejoined. Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

This did not happen in A.D. 70 for the Jewish nation not only did not repent but they were scattered throughout the world after the destruction of Jerusalem. It is yet to come.

You said, And the same who through faith in Christ, God reattaches to Israel under Christ. Many became Jews through circumcision. Indeed, most of Abraham's covenant seed were not related to him. Except Ishmael whom he excommunicated, And Isaac who also joined the covenant seed through circumcision. Had Abraham not circumcised Isaac, he would have been broken off, and not part of Abraham's covenant seed.

No, salvation is by faith in the Lord, not in circumcision. Salvation is always by faith in every age no matter who is under consideration. Circumcision is a sign of being a Jew, but it does not and never did bring salvation to a soul.

Fella, I have politely asked you three times to answer my four questions which is repeated in post # 110. So either you be a gentleman and answer those four questions or else I will write you off as an anti-semitic person who is in serious error & I will put you on ignore.

 

Dave has a different understanding of scripture than you do. So, with all due respect, you have no authority to bind his conscience to something he does not believe. At most, you can disagree with him.

 

Please expound on this. Were these "some" under the Law because they chose to be or did God recognize that they were under the Law? Seeing as the Law was never meant to save, I am not sure what you mean by this comment.

 

I can't bind him to anything--I can't even get him to read the contract. It says nothing at all about all the stuff that he is trying to add to it. I don't care what he believes but he cannot tell anyone that his Replacement Theology or Preterism is Scriptural because the contract is straightforward and unconditional.

 

You, mister, are going into the ignore can.

"no more physical Israel or Physical Jews"?....that, quite frankly, is a lie. You DID NOT pay attention to what Paul said in Romans 9:3-5 nor what he said in Romans 11:26. (that verse seals the deal and you sir, are in denial).

YOU STILL DID NOT ANSWER MY FOUR QUESTIONS IN POST # 110. It is clear that you do not because you cannot.

My last statement to you: "A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject"! Titus 3:10.

 

I will answer -

I belong to Christ - I'm a child of God, so my human ancestry is not relevant. As Paul wrote:

Phil. 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation! 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, 4 though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so:.....​

Jesus Christ -

Mat. 1:1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:

Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.​

To begin with, read them

21 “Thus you shall divide this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22 It shall be that you will divide it by lot as an inheritance for yourselves, and for the strangers who dwell among you and who bear children among you. They shall be to you as native-born among the children of Israel; they shall have an inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel. 23 And it shall be that in whatever tribe the stranger dwells, there you shall give him his inheritance,” says the Lord God.​

The Jews occupying Palestine are determined to do the exact opposite of God's command.

Ezekiel was prophesying the return from Babylon, the coming of Messiah, & the coming spiritual Kingdom situation. The prophesies are given in terms of Israel, but Jesus & the New Covenant writers make it clear that all believers of all nations are citizens of the Kingdom by faith, not ethnicity.

Baptism into the Kingdom by water & the Spirit is prophesied in Ez. 36:

22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I do not do thisfor your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name’s sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. 23 And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I am the Lord,” says the Lord God, “when I am hallowed in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.
​

Sadly they did not act on Ezekiel's prophecy:

37 ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I will also let the house of Israel inquire of Me to do this for them: I will increase their men like a flock. 38 Like a flock offered as holy sacrifices, like the flock at Jerusalem on its feast days, so shall the ruined cities be filled with flocks of men. Then they shall know that I am the Lord.”’”​

The prophecy of a rebuilt temple, Ez. 40-48, with temple worship including animal sacrifices for sin can only refer ultimately to the temple built with living stones of which we are all members. It cannot be a future millennial temple with old covenant worship.
A temple was rebuilt by the exiles when they returned.

The straight answer is the massive military support from the West, particularly the US which pours money & armaments into Israel, & vetoes UN resolutions criticising settlements, oppression of Palestinians, appropriation of Palestinian resources including drinking & irrigation water, incarceration of children, war crimes, etc.

The Israeli murder of US marines on the USS Liberty during the 1967 war was hardly an "act of God."

Should the Israeli government be acting against the 10 commandments? The unprovoked murder of Gazan protesters, and the official coveting & stealing of Palestinian land & destruction of homes. Even destruction of schools supplied by the European Union, & theft of solar panels.

But of course (sarcasm alert) they got G-d on their side.

 

Covenanter,

I will answer -

I belong to Christ - I'm a child of God, so my human ancestry is not relevant. As Paul wrote:

Phil. 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation! 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, 4 though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so:.....​

I didn't ask you, sir, I asked him. But if indeed you agree with his position then tell us what tribe of Israel you belong to and prove it by your family genealogy. Jesus was of the tribe of Judah. What's yours?

Jesus Christ -

Mat. 1:1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:

Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.​

Yes. BUT.................when will Jesus Christ sit upon the throne of David, for that has not happened yet?

To begin with, read them

21 “Thus you shall divide this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22 It shall be that you will divide it by lot as an inheritance for yourselves, and for the strangers who dwell among you and who bear children among you. They shall be to you as native-born among the children of Israel; they shall have an inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel. 23 And it shall be that in whatever tribe the stranger dwells, there you shall give him his inheritance,” says the Lord God.​

The Jews occupying Palestine are determined to do the exact opposite of God's command.

But they are yet still Jews. Unbelieving Jews yes, but still the natural posterity and offspring of Abraham. They will turn to the Lord in that yet appointed day. Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: This has not been fulfilled in human history because it is yet future.

Ezekiel was prophesying the return from Babylon, the coming of Messiah, & the coming spiritual Kingdom situation. The prophesies are given in terms of Israel, but Jesus & the New Covenant writers make it clear that all believers of all nations are citizens of the Kingdom by faith, not ethnicity.

I never suggested otherwise.

But no, the boundaries that are mentioned in Ezekiel 47: 13-.... DO NOT match the land that Israel regained after the Babylonian captivity. It wasn't even close. This will be inherited in the future and God's purposes will be fulfilled perfectly.

13 Thus saith the Lord God; This shall be the border, whereby ye shall inherit the land according to the twelve tribes of Israel: Joseph shall have two portions.14 And ye shall inherit it, one as well as another: concerning the which I lifted up mine hand to give it unto your fathers: and this land shall fall unto you for inheritance.15 And this shall be the border of the land toward the north side, from the great sea, the way of Hethlon, as men go to Zedad; 16 Hamath, Berothah, Sibraim, which is between the border of Damascus and the border of Hamath; Hazarhatticon, which is by the coast of Hauran. 17 And the border from the sea shall be Hazarenan, the border of Damascus, and the north northward, and the border of Hamath. And this is the north side.18 And the east side ye shall measure from Hauran, and from Damascus, and from Gilead, and from the land of Israel by Jordan, from the border unto the east sea. And this is the east side.19 And the south side southward, from Tamar even to the waters of strife in Kadesh, the river to the great sea. And this is the south side southward....and it goes on from there.

Those dimensions are not anything close to what Israel returned to in 536 B.C.

Baptism into the Kingdom by water & the Spirit is prophesied in Ez. 36:

I agree with the passages you quoted of course. But there will still be a distinction between the church and Israel during the coming kingdom age. Quote: Micah 5:8 And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people...
​

Sadly they did not act on Ezekiel's prophecy: (Yet, God said they would and will. Again look at Romans 9:3-5, & 11:26.)

37 ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I will also let the house of Israel inquire of Me to do this for them: I will increase their men like a flock. 38 Like a flock offered as holy sacrifices, like the flock at Jerusalem on its feast days, so shall the ruined cities be filled with flocks of men. Then they shall know that I am the Lord.”’”​

The prophecy of a rebuilt temple, Ez. 40-48, with temple worship including animal sacrifices for sin can only refer ultimately to the temple built with living stones of which we are all members. It cannot be a future millennial temple with old covenant worship.

You are wrong here also. The dimensions given of that coming temple are specific and detailed chapter for chapter. Not only so but the eastern gate is mentioned by name ....that is the gate Jesus will come through at His second coming. This is fully described in chap. 43:1-4. There is no mistaking it. Jesus did NOT take the throne after his first advent and his journey through that eastern gate...................but..................He will take the throne after His second advent and the Jews will gladly receive Him.

A temple was rebuilt by the exiles when they returned.

That temple was built by Herod , a non-Jew and NOT according the dimensions given by Ezekiel in 40-42. Sir you really need to read those chapters again for you are missing important details.....details that make for the difference between ancient Israel and modern Israel. Your lack of attention on these things is causing you to be in error on some very key points.

The straight answer is the massive military support from the West, particularly the US which pours money & armaments into Israel, & vetoes UN resolutions criticising settlements, oppression of Palestinians, appropriation of Palestinian resources including drinking & irrigation water, incarceration of children, war crimes, etc.

The Israeli murder of US marines on the USS Liberty during the 1967 war was hardly an "act of God."

Who said it was? If those things are true then the Jews who did it are guilty. So? That does not make the nation state of Israel any less the people of the promise.

Should the Israeli government be acting against the 10 commandments? (No, neither should I, neither should you). The unprovoked murder of Gazan protesters, and the official coveting & stealing of Palestinian land & destruction of homes. (the land belongs to Israel, every bit of it ............but not all of the promised land will be granted to them until they repent at the 2nd coming of Christ). Even destruction of schools supplied by the European Union, & theft of solar panels.

But of course (sarcasm alert) they got G-d on their side.

Don't ever cross out God's name, even in sarcasm.

 

Says you.

I am not a full Preterist but I am a Covenant Theologian (what you disparagingly refer to as Replacement Theology). You think the promises made to covenant Israel will all be fulfilled in a future Jewish state. Others (like myself) see that fulfillment through the spiritual seed of Abraham, not a physical seed. Dispensationalists go apoplectic over this. It is almost amusing.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

1689Dave,

I am delaying putting you on permanent ignore but it is clear that that is what I will do in light of the response you just gave me.

“That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.” (Romans 9:8) (KJV 1900)

“And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” (Galatians 3:29) (KJV 1900)

Do you know how to answer plainly spoken words? I ASKED YOU, sir, that means 1689Dave.... what tribe of Israel you belong to, not the rest of the professing Christian world. Tell me in terms of the New Testament: Revelation 14 where the twelve tribes are mentioned by name: Juda, Reuben, Gad, Aser, Nepthalim, Manasses, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, Zabulon, Joseph, & Benjamin. Which tribe do you belong to?

I know that a Jew who does not know Jesus Christ is not a saved person. Those Jews who have accepted Him are Jewish Christians. Nonetheless, the Jews of our day who are of the flesh are still the posterity of Abraham and the day will come that the whole nation is going to accept Jesus as their Messiah. (Romans 11:26 for the third time!) I wish you would pay closer attention to that verse because that passage by itself destroys your position. The Jewish nation has never been saved altogether but all living Jews at the time of Jesus coming are going to be converted to Jesus the Messiah..............in the future.

“Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.” (Acts 2:30–31) (KJV 1900)

“For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.” (1 Corinthians 15:25–26) (KJV 1900)

Yes, Jesus reigns...AT THIS MOMENT and will reign until His enemies are defeated. But He is not sitting on the throne of David yet. He is sitting now on the same throne He sat on next to the Father in heaven before He came to earth. That was not the 'Throne of David' because David had not even been born yet. The throne of David was on earth and will be on earth at the second coming of Jesus. He has NEVER sat on that throne yet.

“But you have come to Mount Zion, the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, to the assembly and congregation of the firstborn, who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous, who have been made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks of something better than Abel’s does.” (Hebrews 12:22–24) (NET)

No. This scripture is true but you have a poor sense of timing as it relates to its application. The details of Ezekiels prophecy will be fulfilled on earth in the future.... because the detailed description of his prophecy in chapters 40-43 and the arrival of the heavenly Jerusalem in Revelation 21:12-21 do not match. Read for yourself detail for detail. They are not the same.

Why has America been a superpower since WWII? God never restored the OT Jews to their land without them first repenting. And there are none who hate you and Jesus more than they. Are you sure they are Biblical Israel? Repentance = accepting Jesus.....[/QUOTE]

You are not telling the truth. America has lost wars, but Israel has not. Not only so, but I know for a fact that some Bible believing Christians are close friends with Benjamin Netanyahu and have personally encouraged him to keep studying the scriptures in his family Bible studies. The man loves them and so do others who are close to him. There are Jews who love Christians and are friends with them and others who have no love for Christians at all.

Your condemnation of the Jews (Abraham's posterity) may cost you if you don't stop spouting your hatred of those people.

Genesis 12:2-3...And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great, and thou shalt be a blessing. And I will bless them that bless thee and curse them that curse thee."

I won't reply to you again.

 

I don't because you are not being truthful & your sense of timing is terrible. In the can you go.

 

And I am putting you "in the can". Adios.

 

First of all, I am a modified dispensationalists so I really do not belong in that camp at all. Secondly, there is no disparagement intended in the term Replacement Theology--it is in standard use to describe those who think that they have replaced Israel. Another term according to the internet is supersessionism. Finally, the contract, which I hope that you will read, says physical seed and says that it is an everlasting covenant. You are free to believe as you like but you cannot say that Genesis backs you up if you read the contract.

 

Sure I can. The so-called "contract" you refer to (which is actually a covenant, not a contract) is promised in the Old Testament and fully revealed in the New Covenant. That we disagree about it is fine but do not tell me "you cannot say" because I am.