Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
The events of Acts and the Corinthian church are completely different. With all due respect to you, you need to study several other commentators on the Word and come up with a better defense than you 'psychological and demonic' theological spin.
Since all commentaries don't agree it is obvious that all commentaries aren't right. Lay your commentaries down and look at the Scriptures with me, and if necessary we will consult the Greek.
In Acts those filled with the Spirit spoke in an escatic language in the streets of Jerusalem and yet to the ear of the people from many many nations they understood in their own language.
No one spoke in an ecstatic language! This is error to the nth degree. There is no Biblical evidence in the Bible anywhere. It is all in your imagination. If you have Biblcal evidence show it. Just stating it to be so doesn't make it true. Take a look at the main event of Acts chapter two: "Speaking in languages on the Day of Pentecost."
Acts 2:2-4 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:4 They were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with
other languages, as the Spirit gave them the ability to speak. (WEB)
--You will find that most other translations translate "tongues" as languages, as does the WEB, in this case. That is what it means--languages--real actual foreign languages, just as most Bibles translate it.
Now using this one verse alone, Ray, tell me its meaning, and how you derive the meaning. If it means anything else but actual foreign languages where do you get that meaning from?
The Greek word is "glossa" It has no other meaning but an actual real language.
In I Corinthians 12 & 14 Paul is not saying they are on a psychological or spiritual high or that they were demon possessed when some people spoke in 'tongues.' He was merely correcting those who spoke in tongues without someone there with the gift of 'interpretation of tongues.'
Explain this passage to me Ray:
1 Corinthians 12:1-3 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. Wherefore I give you to understand, that
no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
What was happening here Ray? What is your interpretation? I hope it makes sense.
In I Cor. 12:4 Paul does not say, 'Now there are diversities of gifted demons, but he does say, '... there are diversities of gifts, by the same Holy Spirit.'
Isn't it odd you should leave out the first three verses?
He also never, never says "gifts of gibberish."
As many parts of the human body make up one person, so too, the Lord gifts each of us with various abilities coming from the Spirit of God. [vss. 15-20].
Not every Christian will have the 'gift of tongues.' [vs. 30].
But every Chatismatic thinks they should. That in itself tells you they have a wrong theology.
Also it speaks of a Biblical gift--the gift of languages, as is shown here:
1 Corinthians 12:30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with various languages? Do all interpret?
--But the Charismatics don't have that. They practice the psychological "ability" to speak in gibberish.
In I Cor. 14:1b says, that we should 'desire spiritual gifts.'
Gibberish is not a gift. The gift of speaking in foreign languages was the Biblical gift of tongues. But that ended at the end of the first century.
Paul says, 'I wish you all spoke with tongues,[14:5a] though he knew by his other utterance that not everyone would have this ability. [12:30].
This verse is greatly misunderstood. Perhaps if I quote it from the ASV it will make a bit more sense:
1 Corinthians 14:5 Now I would have you all speak with tongues, but rather that ye should prophesy: and greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
--In other words he is saying that it is okay with me if you have the ability to speak in other languages and use it according to the restrictions that I have set down for you. That is ok with me. But it is much better for your benefit that you prophecy. It is a much more valuable and profitable gift. With prophesying everyone understands and is edified. The same is not so with speaking in a foreign language. There is absolutely nothing said here about anything ecstatic.
Everyone who is saved has the Holy Spirit so 'the gift of tongues' is not proof of being baptized into the Spirit. This happens when we are saved. [I Cor. 12:13].
Okay.
The tongues that Paul is speaking about was one in which the worshiper did not understand himself, so it was not his native language [I Cor. 14:14]. This 'gift of tongues' was an estatic language.
That is absurd! Why would a "worshiper not understand himself. I was driving someone home once. He was a youg man. I was quite a bit younger but still a college graduate and involved in Christian education at that time. When I began to approach this man's house (who was not saved, and not even graduated from high school), he began to speak about mathematical equations, trigonemtry, algebra, quantum physics, etc. He spoke in English, but of those things that he had no prior knowledge of. Where did that knowledge come from? He had been dabbling in the occult. He was demon-possessed. Now, that man was speaking of things he understood not, but he was under another power--a denomic power. Are you suggesting that all tongues-speakers are under denomic power. It sounds like it!! Of course I could almost agree with that.
The command of Paul is to always have control of your mind.:
Study to show yourselves approved unto God.
"Think on these things."
"Meditate on them day and night"
"Pray without ceasing."
2 Corinthians 10:5 casting down imaginations, and every high thing that is exalted against the knowledge of God, and
bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ;
--Do you bring every thought into captivity? every thought to the obedience of Jesus Christ?
Do you have complete control of your mind.
Let this mind be in you which is also in Christ Jesus.
A Christian always must have full control of his mind (unless he is sleeping).
Paul said that he spoke in 'tongues' more than any other worshiper of the Lord God. [14:18].
Yes he did. He was more spiritual. The Corinthians who so much wanted the gift was the most carnal church mentioned in the Bible. Paul needed the gift more than any other of them because of his missionary journeys. They took him to nations far and wide where there would have been a need to speak in other foreign languages.
Tongues in relation to lost souls, was a sign that the unsaved were not saved, or they would have known of this experience by some Christians. [14:22].
Verse 22 goes with verse 21. Tongues was a sign to the unbelieving Jew, not just any unbeliever. That is why it ended in the first century. Those that crucifed the Lord died in that generation.
At various times in the church at Corinth, the phenemenon of 'tongues' with 'interpretation'and in one service it could happen up to three times, but everything had to be done in order and reverence toward the Lord. [14:27].
It wasn't a phenomena; it was a gift. Today it is a phenomena that started in the 20th century and before that time was unknown to mankind except in cults and false religions. Gibberish is a mark of a false religion, and a work of Satan.
While preaching in the language of the people present at the assembly was most vital, Paul says also, 'do not forbid people to speak with tongues.' [14:39]
He wrote that to the church at Corinth while the gift of other languages was still in operation. Since the gift is not operational today, it has no relevance to us either. Neither does cloven tongues of fire over people's heads when the pretend to speak in tongues either.
DHK
