Featured "that which is perfect..." 1 Cor. 13:10

We've been through this.

I challenged some Pentecostals on how the gifts were better than scripture. It was obvious they were not. Scripture does more and in a better, more reliable way.

 

We have the scriptures only. And they out do the gifts any day.

 

First of all, I’d like to explain what I mean by the word, Cessationism.
1. I do not believe that all miracles have ceased today. Every time someone is saved it is a miracle of God’s power and grace, and He is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think. However, I do not believe that there are ‘workers of miracles’ (1 Cor. 12:10) today.

2. I believe that God sometimes heals today according to His will. I have some experience of this which I am happy to relate if anyone is interested. I think many people have testimonies of God healing in answer to prayer. However, I do not believe that there are miraculous ‘gifts of healing’ (1 Cor. 12:9) today.

3. I believe in prophetic ministry today. I believe that preaching is prophetic in that it ‘tells forth’ the words of God. What I do not believe remains today is the gift of ‘foretelling’- seeing the future. I do not believe that anyone can bind the conscience of a Christian by anything outside the Bible.

What I understand as Cessationism is the belief that certain gifts which were given to the church were never intended to be continued indefinitely but were for the infancy of the Church. A parallel to this is God’s dealings with Israel in the wilderness. They received miraculous supplies of manna, water and quail; their feet did not swell and their shoes did not wear out. The day they crossed into Canaan, the manna ceased (Joshua 5:12) and the other items are not mentioned again, so I assume they did as well. I believe that the same principle applies in the N.T. Certain gifts were supplied to the infant church which were discontinued when it reached maturity.

Now let us consider 1 Cor. 13:8. ‘Love never fails. But whether there are prophesies, they will fail (Gk. katargethesontai. (Literally, ‘Be rendered useless’ or ‘be abolished’); whether there are tongues, they will cease.’ This seems rather clear to me, and those who would make the text mean that prophecies will not fail and ‘tongues’ will not cease have the burden of evidence on them. It is suggested that prophecies and tongues will indeed disappear, but not until our Lord’s second coming. What then of faith and hope, which are said to ‘abide’ along with love? ‘Hope that is seen is not hope’ (Rom. 8:24) and ‘Faith is…..the evidence of things not seen’ (Heb. 11:1). When the Lord Jesus returns, ‘every eye shall see Him’ (Rev. 1:7) and we shall have no need of faith or hope, so they will ‘abide’ only until then. Therefore prophecy and tongues must pass away before the Second Coming. When were they to end? The answer is in verse 10. ‘But when that which is “perfect” has come, then that which is in part will pass away.’ The Greek word teleios, translated ‘perfect,’ can also mean ‘complete’ or ‘mature’ (as it does in 1 Cor. 14:20). ‘Mature’ seems to be the best translation as Paul goes on to talk about childhood and adulthood. What he is saying is that the sign gifts were given in the infancy of the Church, but in its maturity they would not be needed and the Corinthians should prepare to leave them behind as they had the things of childhood.

[Taken from my blog article: Cessationism. Have the Sign Gifts Ceased?]

 

There is quite a lot of the O.T. after Joshua 5:12.

 

No. I think the Church (capital 'C') reached maturity towards the end of the 1st Century when the canon of Scripture was complete and the Apostles had passed on, leaving others to carry on their work. I note that in the Pastoral Epistles, where one would expect Paul to give instructions about the Spiritual gifts, he says nothing whatsoever about them. What does he tell Timothy? "Preach the word!"

One hears from time to time of alleged miracles, though they're usually in the Congo or somewhere it's very hard to verify them. I don't necessarily rule them out (see my post #5), but I do not believe that there are workers of miracles today in the sense of Acts 19:11-12. Even in the very early times, the miracles were done only by the Apostles and possibly one or two others (Stephen). But see how Luke separates the Apostles from the rest of the church:

Acts 2:43. 'Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders were done through the apostles.'
Acts 4:33. 'And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was on them all.
Acts 5:12. 'And through the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done among the people. And they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.'

 

Yes, I added rather a lot to my O.P.

I am saying the Church became mature and the gifts ceased. God did not bring back the manna etc. because the Israelites fell into sin and foolishness.

 

Honestly brethren we should cease from looking for "signs" and live by faith.

If perchance we begin seeing "signs" coming upon the spiritual scene once again then we IMO could expect that the age of grace has ended and something else is just over the horizon, possibly the worst time of misery this world has ever seen.

But it could be bitter/sweet.

Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

But until then we should live by faith and not go along the ups and downs and valleys and mountain tops by which the preachers of emotion carry us upon. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have a bible oriented prophecy conference.

Luke 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

Know this - every day that passes Jesus return is one day closer. That works for me. That is not to say I don't eagerly expect Him on a daily basis.

Let us walk by faith, He will return in His own time.

 

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him;for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 1 Cor 13:12

Someone convince me that which is in bold is not when perfect is come.

 

The gifts came only through the hands of an apostle other than in the two outpourings. I can prove this because scripture mentions no other way of distribution than this. Try to prove this wrong using scripture. And when the apostles died, the distribution of gifts ceased.

I can also prove from scripture today's "gifts" are not genuine. Possibly in another thread.

 

EVERYONE agrees that the gifts will cease. All attempts to state a definitive WHEN involve eisegesis of the scripture rather than exegesis. Nowhere does it explicitly state that "when the perfect comes" means "the bible" and nowhere does it explicitly state that "when the perfect comes" means "our glorification".

If you REALLY want to sway opinions, try to prove one of those points with definitive exegesis of scripture.

 

Easy. Just compare scripture with scripture.

“so that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ; who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye be unreproveable in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, through whom ye were called into the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.” (1 Corinthians 1:7–9)

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;” (Revelation 1:1)

All of the gifts expired, and history confirms this, as John published Revelation.


602. ἀποκάλυψις apŏkalupsis, ap-ok-al´-oop-sis; from 601; disclosure:—appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.

Strong, J. (2009). A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Vol. 1, p. 14).

used for Revelation by Paul and John