Christ's Return: Spiritual or Physical?

7 Lo, he doth come with the clouds, and see him shall every eye, even those who did pierce him, and wail because of him shall all the tribes of the land. Yes! Amen! Rev 1 YLT

 

Yes. Prior to His two deaths on the cross, He was flesh being flesh and blood. In His bodily resurrection He stated, He had "flesh and bone" (Luke 23:39). And even now as an immortal man (Hebrews 13:8) He is in Heaven as our mediator (Isaiah 53:12; Hebrews 9:12; Hebrews 9:24; 1 Timothy 2:5) until His second appearing (Hebrews 9:28; Acts of the Apostles 1:9-11; 1 John 3:2).

 

Physical, the same as when He was taken up.
The explicit mention can be found in other passages.

Here's the first passage you mentioned:

" And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." ( Acts of the Apostles 1:10-11 )

Take all the information from the endings of the previous 4 Gospels ( Matthew 28:9, Luke 24:36-53, John 20:19-28 for example ), as a composite, and carry them over to Acts of the Apostles 1:9-11.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to believe, Tom.

We "reconcile it" by believing all that is said in God's word, because it is God's word, Tom:

"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them [his] hands and [his] feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took [it], and did eat before them." ( Luke 24:39-43 )

He appeared before them as a man, with flesh and bones ( but not blood ) and then proceeded to eat a piece of fish and some honey.
He was then taken up in the same form as they had seen Him:

" And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven." ( Luke 24:50-51 ).

The context of Him being taken up, is the same context of Him urging them to behold His hands and His feet...there is no mention made of Him assuming spirit before He was carried up.

The "manner" is, "taken up" / "carried up".
The "form" is, physically.
This has only happened to two other men in all of history:

Enoch ( Genesis 5:24 ).
Elijah ( 2 Kings 2:1-11 ).

He didn't depart as a spirit, and He will not come again as a spirit.


Here's the next one:

" Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." ( 1 Corinthians 15:50 )

Flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom of God...it doesn't say anything about flesh and bones not being able to inherit the kingdom of God.


Again, I'm not sure why you find this so hard to believe.

 

He is not humiliated.
But Scripture says He is now a man ( Hebrews 2:16-18 ).

Scripture also tells us that there are terrestrial bodies and celestial bodies ( 1 Corinthians 15:35-44 )
He has a body.
It is glorified, not the same as before the resurrection.

We will have bodies.
They will be glorified ( Romans 8:30 ).

Believers are members of His flesh, and of His bones ( Ephesians 5:30 )
We will be made partakers of that which He now has...resurrected, perfect and painless glorified bodies, in the celestial sense.

" Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." ( 1 John 3:2 )

Not spirit.

He has the same glory that He did when He was spirit with the Father ( because He has gone to sit at His right hand, the same as when He was spirit ), but He also now has a celestial body, the same as His brethren ( believers ) will have at the first resurrection, who have been waiting for their spiritual "house" ( 2 Corinthians 5:1-4 ) all their earthly lives.

The "glory" that He now has, is to sit at His Father's right hand...it has nothing to do with His form.
Once again, I'm not sure why you find this so hard to believe.


May God bless you sir.

 

Well, as I see it, we only need one.

I have the one I need, and I use it regularly.
That said, we now have several things that we do not agree with:


You claim that the tribulation has already happened...it hasn't.
In my estimation, it should be obvious, because we're not all dead and in Hell, or living in the thousand-year reign of Christ from Jerusalem.

You claim that Christ will not rule and reign from Jerusalem on the throne ( thrones are locations, not the actual seat, but the representative "seat". The "seat of government" for Great Britain is the city of London, for example, and the "county seat" of Illinois' Cook County is Chicago ) of His father David ( Isaiah 2:1-4, Isaiah 9:6-7, Isaiah 16:5, Zechariah 2:10-12, Zechariah 8:3, Micah 4:1, Daniel 2:44, Luke 1:32-33 ).

You claim that Christ will come as a spirit, and not as the Son of Man with a physical body ( Luke 24:36-43, John 20:27, 1 John 1:1 ).




Tom, with all due respect, I cannot agree with you on any of these subjects.

To me, you are advocating things that the Bible simply does not teach.

 

" There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.
48 As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly." ( 1 Corinthians 15:44-49 )

My "take":

-There is a natural body and a spiritual body...I understand this literally.
The natural body is composed of flesh, blood and bones, whose life is in the blood ( Genesis 9:4, Leviticus 17:11 ).
The spiritual body is composed of flesh and bones ( Luke 24:39, 1 Corinthians 15:35-44 ), whose life is in Christ ( John 11:25, John 14:16, Colossians 3:4 ).

Now, I see Scripture contrasting the earthly side of mankind ( believers and unbelievers ) with the heavenly side of mankind ( glorified believers ):

-Verse 45: The first Adam was made a living soul ( spiritual essence of the earthly man, God breathed fleshly life into him ( Genesis 2:7 ), the last "Adam" a quickening ( life-giving ) spirit ( spiritual essence of the heavenly man, Christ, which believers are reflections of, and God has breathed spiritual life into them ( John 20:22, James 1:18, 1 John 1:5, 1 John 5:11-12 ).
-Verse 46: Howbeit ( nevertheless ) that was not first ( the first Adam ) which is spiritual, but that which is natural...afterward, that which is spiritual ( Christ ). Adam was a natural man with a natural body. Christ is now a spiritual man with a spiritual body.
-Verse 47: The first man ( Adam ) is of the earth, "earthy", the second is the Lord from Heaven.
-Verse 48: As is the "earthy", such are they also that are "earthy" ( "in the flesh", natural, please see Romans 8:5-8, 1 Corinthians 2:14 ), and as is the heavenly, such are they ( believers, please see Romans 8:9-11, 1 Corinthians 2:15-16 ) also that are heavenly.
-Verse 49: As we ( believers ) have borne the image ( fleshly body ) of the earthy ( Adam ), we shall also bear the image ( spiritual body ) of the heavenly ( Christ ).

That is how I currently see it.



God bless you sir.

 

Tom,

I've never walked away from this thread ( and have never commented on it until today ), only previous ones that dealt with subjects like Preterism.
With respect to Preterism, I am not going to respond to you in anymore threads of that type, because I believe that you are wrong in your conclusions.

With that said, I'm going to add two other subjects, and I will, by the grace of God, do my best to refrain from interacting with you in any threads about these 3 subjects:

Preterism
Christ's Second Coming.
Christ's Millennial Kingdom.

I'm also going to add a caveat:
I may reply to other posters in them, but I will not reply to you.


May God bless you richly both in this life, and in the life to come.

 

This is a very interesting thread, so I am going to spend my nickel's worth.
Acts 1:9-11 has already been discussed, but I believe it's important to go over again. The disciples saw a physical body going up into the clouds. The angels told them that Jesus would return in the same manner. As I see it, that manner involves His return to be physically, visibly, and in glory.
In 1 Corinthians 15:21 and 23, the return of Christ is connected with the resurrection of the dead. In a broader context, verses 12-19 speak of the importance of His resurrection. I will confess that the doctrine of Christ's (and our) bodily resurrection of the dead is one of the main reasons I am a partial preterist.

 

I think that maybe you under estimate Christ. He is God and nothing is impossible with God,
MB

 

The second coming event will be the end of history as we now observe it, as the sky will split apart, and all eyes shall see Him returning, and he will set up His own kingdom now! The Christians will also experience the physical resurrection into same glorified body of Christ, both those who died in him and still alive, that did not happen AD 70!

 

Jesus is in His physically glorified body, and still has his scars to show that!

 

As a Partial Preterist, I believe that a great deal of prophecy was fulfilled in AD 70 - but not all prophecy. I definitely agree that the 2nd Coming will be "the end of history as we know it". Based on Scripture, we agree regarding the physical resurrection of the saints as well. That, indeed, is our blessed hope.