Replacement Theology--Heresy?

Tim.
You will have to explain the difference because frankly I don't see it. (no pun intended)

 

Tim & others, you may find this interesting:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=70349

 

The Church

In the New Testament the word church is used in two different ways. Most frequently the word is used to refer to a local body of believers, a single congregation. However, on occasion the word is used to refer to the entire number of the elect, all those who will be gathered into one under Jesus Christ [Acts 20:28; Hebrews 12:23; Colossians 1:18, 24,25; Ephesians 1:22, 23; Ephesians 2:19-22; Ephesians 5:23-32].

The Church exists in and through the Lord Jesus Christ and so is a distinctive New Testament reality [New Geneva Bible, page 1864]. However, as a people of the promised New Covenant [Jeremiah 31:31-33] which was instituted by the Lord Jesus Christ [Matthew 26:28, 1 Corinthians 11:25, Hebrews 8:6-13], who, as the incarnate God, is the promised seed of Abraham [Galatians 3:16] and the promised Messiah [John 4:25,26], there is a continuity with spiritual Israel, God’s covenant people of the Old Testament. The predominant teaching of the Church since Pentecost is that God has only one people and that the New Testament Church is the Israel of God, the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy. The Baptist Faith and Message adopted by the Southern Baptist Convention in Atlanta, Georgia on June 14, 2000 writes of the Church in Section VI as follows: “The New Testament speaks also of the Church as the Body of Christ which includes all the redeemed of all the ages, believers from every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation.”

Scripture passages that teach that God has only one people are:

Galatians 3:29, KJV
29. And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Romans 2:28,29, KJV
28. For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29. But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

Colossians 2:11, KJV
11. In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

John P.Newport in The Lion and The Lamb [page 196] says of these passages:

“If believers are the true sons of Abraham, the true circumcision, then we must conclude that the Church is the true spiritual Israel, even though the word itself may not be used of the Church. This I believe to be confirmed by the expression, ‘the Israel of God’ in Galatians 6:16”

Galatians 6:16, KJV
16. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace [be] on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Jesus Christ told the Jewish doubters in John 8:56: Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw [it], and was glad. The Apostle Paul, in his epistle to the church at Galatia, wrote:

Galatians 3:8-9, KJV
8. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

The 11th chapter of Hebrews tells us that the Old Testament Saints considered themselves strangers and pilgrims on earth and vividly portrays their longing to see that city whose builder and maker is God. That city is the the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, the general assembly and Church of the Firstborn [Hebrews 12:22-24], and.the chaste virgin bride of Jesus Christ [2 Corinthians 11:2].

 

Source </font>[/QUOTE]LadyEagle--

That link didn't work for me. Do you have another link for that Source? I am checking out Google about Replacement Theology. There was a book that came out about 10 years ago, written by Hal Lindsey called "Road to Holocaust"--ever hear about it or read it? Dave Hunt has also written much about Israel in prophecy (Jerusalem, A Cup of Trembling and Judgment Day, his latest one). These believers in Replacement Theology don't like Dave Hunt--if you ever read any of his books, you will understand why they dislike him so much. Here is Dave Hunt's website:

http://www.thebereancall.org

Here is a challenge to all you Replacement Theologists: When you read Paul's epistle to the Romans, chapter 10 vs. 1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. (Romans 10:1)--where it says "Israel", put the word "church" in its place (since you believe that the Church has replaced Israel). Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for the church (replacing Israel) is, that they might be saved. (Romans 10:1)
Sounds pretty silly, doesn't it?

 

JGrubbs--

I checked out that Gary DeMar site--he is a partial preterist. He teaches that Jesus Christ has already returned, prophecy was fulfilled in 70AD, etc. That is ridiculous. I will stick with what the Bible teaches (without having to "spiritualize" all of Revelation and other prophecies concerning Israel). The Church has not replaced Israel.

How do you view Israel in these verses?

Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Romans 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

 

Hi, Linda:

Here are some more links - the first one may link to the source of my post:

Source

Source

Source

Since I never heard of the opinion of replacement theology from Baptists before I joined this board, I researched it, and can only say it makes me very sad - I believe this theory is a tool of satan to further his efforts to try to destroy the Jewish people.

Unfortunately, after the Jewish early church fathers lost leadership of the early church to Gentiles, some of the early Gentile church fathers came up with the "theology" of replacing Israel with the church, totally ignoring Romans Chapter 11. (Boasting against the branches??? Romans 11)

Augustine was anti-semitic. So was the Catholic church and, later, Martin Luther. There are some things I find very troubling and puzzling, and this is one of them, for people who call themselves Christians, let alone, Baptists.

 

Thanks LadyEagle--

I have heard of Bridges for Peace--

Have you heard of Friends of Israel Gospel Ministy? There is also a Jewish brother on Sermonaudio, Mark Robinson who has a ministry within his church (not a parachurch ministry) called Shalom Outreach Ministries in El Cajon, California.

http://www.shalomoutreachministries.com/

Mark Robinson has 2 messages on Replacement Theology that you might want to listen to:
When Is A Promise Not A Promise, Part 1 & 2--here are the links to those messages:
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=sermonssource&sermonID=7210374352
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=770373324

Sermonaudio.com tends to be Calvinistic (they have alot of preachers that are Reformed/Covenant Theology/Calvinist--but they do have some pretty good Fundamental preaching on that site--but you need to be very discerning. I always look for the Calvie "buzzwords" when looking for a good message.

Anyway, thanks so much for those links--I saved the first one to PDF format (it's 10 pages to print)

God bless

 

As Jesus Christ said [Matthew 22:29] Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

The Church does not replace National Israel; it is a continuation of Spiritual Israel, you knpw, those like the 7000 who had not bowed the knee to Baal in the time of Elijah. Therefore, Paul could pray for Israel to be saved just as he could pray for Gentiles to be saved.

As someone has already pointed out on this thread National Israel, through the tribe of Judah, has fulfilled its mission to bring Jesus Christ into the world and is no different in the sight of God than any other people, lost without Jesus Christ.

 

What is Replacement Theology?

Replacement Theology was introduced to the Church shortly after Gentile leadership took over from Jewish leadership. What are its premises?

1. Israel (the Jewish people and the land) has been replaced by the Christian Church in the purposes of God, or, more precisely, the Church is the historic continuation of Israel to the exclusion of the former. 2. The Jewish people are now no longer a “chosen people.” In fact, they are no different from any other group, such as the English, Spanish, or Africans. 3. Apart from repentance, the new birth, and incorporation into the Church, the Jewish people have no future, no hope, and no calling in the plan of God. The same is true for every other nation and group. 4. Since Pentecost of Acts 2, the term “Israel,” as found in the Bible, now refers to the Church. 5. The promises, covenants and blessings ascribed to Israel in the Bible have been taken away from the Jews and given to the Church, which has superseded them. However, the Jews are subject to the curses found in the Bible, as a result of their rejection of Christ. If you hear a Christian, a minister, or a Church doctrine that ascribes to one of these points, then knowingly or unknowingly they have swallowed the Replacement Theology pill. I say unknowingly because the doctrine is so systemic, most Christians have been brought up in it and hove no idea that these premises are contrary to Scripture.

http://www.bridgesforpeace.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1914

The church was not a continuation of Spiritual Israel. The church is a totally separate entity. God set Israel aside and is now calling out out a people (Jews and Gentiles)--He will fulfill His promises to Israel "when the fullness of the Gentiles has come in"-- For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. (Romans 11:25) which is when He comes in the clouds at the Rapture of the Church.

 

Ah! The errors of dispensationalism!

 

Sorry, OldRegular, but dispensational theology is not error--only when it is the error of Bullingerism or Cornelius Stamm

 

Sorry, OldRegular, but dispensational theology is not error--only when it is the error of Bullingerism or Cornelius Stamm </font>[/QUOTE]Or Darby, or Scofield, or Chafer, or Ironside, or Pentecost, or Walvoord, or Ryrie, or ?????????????

 

Sorry, OldRegular, but dispensational theology is not error--only when it is the error of Bullingerism or Cornelius Stamm </font>[/QUOTE]Or Darby, or Scofield, or Chafer, or Ironside, or Pentecost, or Walvoord, or Ryrie, or ????????????? </font>[/QUOTE]Replacement theology has its roots in the Roman Catholic Church (Augustinianism). It is theologically anti-semetic. Seems you, RTs want the blessings of Israel's covenants but none of the curses? Hmmmmmmmm

 

Sorry, OldRegular, but dispensational theology is not error--only when it is the error of Bullingerism or Cornelius Stamm </font>[/QUOTE]Or Darby, or Scofield, or Chafer, or Ironside, or Pentecost, or Walvoord, or Ryrie, or ????????????? </font>[/QUOTE]Replacement theology has its roots in the Roman Catholic Church (Augustinianism). It is theologically anti-semetic. Seems you, RTs want the blessings of Israel's covenants but none of the curses? Hmmmmmmmm </font>[/QUOTE]You are incorrect as usual. Simply accept the words of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ:

Matthew 21:37-45, KJV
37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

If that is your idea of replacement theology then so be it, however, that is what Scripture teaches, the kingdom was taken from the Jews by no less that God Himself. Now show me in Scripture where that judgment has been revoked.

If there is any heresy involved here it is the heretical teaching that Jesus Christ failed in His mission to bring the Messianic Kingdom to the Jews and established a "parenthesis Church" instead.

 

Jesus Christ did not fail in His mission. God made specific covenants with the nation of Israel that are "everlasting" covenants. God does not break His Word, and He certainly has not forsaken His people whom He foreknew.

Replacement theology is NOT an idea that I dreamed up. Replacement Theology was introduced to the Church shortly after Gentile leadership took over from Jewish leadership.

"The clear teaching of the New Testament is that the Church was and is to love and honour the Jewish people. In Ephesians 2:11-18, we are told that "by the blood of Messiah," we Gentiles are "made near" to the commonwealth of Israel, the covenants, promises and hopes given to Israel. In Romans 11:11-12, 25, we are told that "blindness in part" has come to the Jews so that the message would be forced out into the nations. Nevertheless, we are told that a time would come when "all Israel would be saved" (v. 26), because the gifts and callings of God towards Israel and the Jewish people were given without repentance (v. 29). God's relationship with Israel and the Jewish people is everlasting.

We Gentile Christians are told that the Jews are "beloved for the sake of the Patriarchs" (Rom. 11:28). They are a chosen people who fulfilled their calling and brought the Gospel to the world. They were chosen to:

1. Be obedient to God's Word and demonstrate to the world as "a light to the nations."
2. Hear God's Word and record it - the Bible.
3. Be the human channel for the Messiah.

The Jewish people have fulfilled their role. The promise to the world through Abraham was that, "in you will all the nations on the earth be blessed" (Gen. 12:3). They were to be a light unto the nations and, while they made mistakes as we all do, they did demonstrate the power of God on earth, they did hear God's Word and record it so that we have the Bible, and they were the human channel for the Messiah, who was born, ministered, died, rose from the dead, ascended to heaven and will return to Jerusalem, Israel, in a day yet to come.

God made an everlasting covenant between the land of Israel and the Jewish people that must be fulfilled and completed or His Word, the Bible, will be proven a lie, which it is not. God will never forget or annul His ancient people. If God will not fulfil His promises to Israel, what guarantee do we have that He will fulfil His promises to the Church? (See Jeremiah 31:35-37)."

Jesus taught that the Jews would lose their spiritual privileges, and be replaced by another people (Matt. 21:43): “Therefore I am saying to you, ‘The kingdom of God will be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits of it.’” Rebuttal: In this passage, Jesus was talking about the priests and Pharisees, who failed as leaders of the people. This passage is not talking about the Jewish people or nation of Israel.

www.israelmybeloved.com/people/covenanted_people/replacement_theology_II.htm

The Church And The Jewish People

Finally, let us turn our attention to the Jewish people, God’s chosen people, who are the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. In Zechariah 2:8, God refers to them as the “apple of His eye,” when He says, “He that touches you touches the apple of His eye.” Also remember Gen. 12:3, “I will bless those that bless thee and curse him that curses thee.” We have read of the enemies of the Israelites in the Hebrew Scriptures (often referred to as the Old Testament): the Egyptian Pharaoh, the Philistines, Canaanites, Moabites, Edomites, Amalekites, Hittites, Assyrians, and the Babylonians, to name a few. In post-biblical days, there were the Greeks, Romans, Persians, Ottoman Turks, Germans, and now the Arabs. In history, all of these great empires who came against Israel have faded into the pages of history (remember Gen. 12:3 on blessings and cursing). But, the Jewish people still continue to live on and Israel is once again flourishing today."

http://www.bridgesforpeace.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2173
For more information.

 

Anti-Jewish writings of some of the Church Fathers

Constantine - AD 312 - first edicts against the Jews.

11-13th centuries - Crusaders killed and persecuted Jews in Europe and Middle East 15th Century - The Inquisition, that lasted in Spain until 1820 16th Century - Martin Luther’s anti-Jewish writings, ghettoization of Jewish communities 19th Century - Russian Pogroms 20th Century - Hitler - 6 million killed

(For a more detailed discussion on Christian anti-Semitism, see the Israel Teaching Letters, June and July, 1998, for my complete teaching on the subject.)

Drink from the “Root of the Olive Tree”: In the last 40 years, a great revival has taken place. Christians are reading the Word of God, which unfolds God’s plan for Israel and His continuing covenant with the Jewish people. Many Bible-believing Christians have shown their support for Israel and the Jewish people, which is a very positive change from the past.

A thorough reading of Romans 9-11 clearly shows God’s continued mercy for the Jewish people and His desire that Christians show them mercy, not anti-Semitic hostility. We are grafted into the tree of Israel, and we are nourished as we drink of the sap of the root of the olive tree - Israel. Romans 11:18 tells us not to boast against the natural branches, the Jewish people, because we don’t support the root, but the root supports us. The Church has often been like a bouquet of cut flowers - beautiful for a season, but cut off from their roots, they quickly wither and die. We need to get reattached to our root (which is Israel and the Hebraic understanding of the Scriptures), to more fully interpret God’s message in the Bible. Connecting the Newer Covenant with the Older Covenant will give us the stability that is so often lacking in some Christian expressions.

Isaiah tells us to look to our “elder brother,” who gave us our salvation, “Listen to me, you who pursue righteousness and who seek the Lord: Look to the rock from which you were hewn; look to Abraham, your father, and to Sarah, who gave you birth” (Isa. 51:1-2). Christians, too, are heirs to the promises of Abraham and the fulfillment of God’s promise to him that “in you will all the nations of the world be blessed.”

We need to take an active part in God’s end-time plan to restore Israel and her people in preparation for the coming of Messiah. Isaiah goes on to say, “The Lord will surely comfort Zion, and will look with compassion on all her ruins; He will make her deserts like Eden, her wastelands like the garden of the Lord. Joy and gladness will be found in her, thanksgiving and the sound of singing” (Isa. 51:3). We see this happening in Israel today, and we can participate in prophecy.

God’s Church is very much a part of God’s redemptive plan for the world. Not only are we called to take God’s message to the nations, but the day is long overdue for us to be reconciled to Israel and the Jewish people. Yeshua (Jesus) is the one who “is our peace, Who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility...” (Eph. 2:14). While this has not manifested itself throughout Christian history, God’s Word is sure and we will see even this come to pass. But, it all starts with one step towards one another. We need to take the first steps.

Yes, there is a relationship between Israel, God’s covenants and the Church. It is an exciting plan that has been unfolding since the days of Genesis and won’t find its ultimate fulfillment until the message of Revelation is complete. From this teaching, we can get excited that we are not just followers of some religious philosophy, but a dynamic part of God’s ongoing, living Word.

http://www.bridgesforpeace.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2173

 

You confuse the nation Israel with spiritual Israel, the believing remnant.