Featured Can we lose our salvation and eternal life?

I do not need to reconcile as it is in agreement with the OP. We are saved by Grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast. *EPHESIANS 2:8-9. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD by faith that works by LOVE. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *ROMANS 6:1-23; JOHN 8:31-36. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the NEW COVENANT promise to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. This is God's work in us and a part of the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

This was already addressed in an earlier post to someone else which examined the scriptures verse by verse and showing that HEBREWS 6:4-8 and elsewhere are in reference and a warning to BELIEVERS that those who were once believers can depart from the faith. There are also examples of this all through the OLD and NEW Testament scriptures..

HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those (1) WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, and (2) HAVE TASTED THE HEAVENLY GIFT, and (3) WERE MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST, [5], And have (4) TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, and (5) THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME,

Who are we talking about here; BELIEVERS of UNBELIEVERS? Were these BELIEVERS Born again christians

The application here is to those who were once BELIEVERS but have fallen away from the faith...

1. Having been enlightened v4;
2. Having tasted of the Heavenly gift v4;
3. Having been made partakers of the Holy Ghost v5;
4. Having tasted of the good Word of God v4;
5. Having tasted of the power of the world to come v5

[6], IF THEY (believers) SHALL FALL AWAY, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh and put him to an open shame.

Yep, BELIEVERS having fallen away from the HEAVENLY gift back into sin..

[7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:
[8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; WHOS END IS TO BE BURNED.

Yep thier end is to be burned does not sound like they will be going into God's Kingdom not having any REPENTANCE for sin (v6).

elsewhere same theme...

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], FOR IF WE (believers) SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE RECEIVE A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Yep seems like those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN are God's Adversaries who will receive the judgments of God. Do you think these people will enter into God's Kingdom?

Hope this helps.

 

Your response...

No, that is not true at all. There are examples of those who believed and followed God's Word all through the OLD and NEW Testament scriptures. Please read all of HEBREWS 11. JESUS is our example and we should believe and follow him *1 PETER 2:21; JAMES 2:18-20; 26

It is God's Word not mine...

JOHN 10:1-10 [1], Truly, truly, I say to you, He that enters not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. [2], But he that enters in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. [3], To him the porter opens; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calls his own sheep by name, and leads them out. [4], And when he puts forth his own sheep, he goes before them, and THE SHEEP FOLLOW HIM: FOR THEY HEAR HIS VOICE (the Word). [5], And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. [6], This parable spoke Jesus to them: but they understood not what things they were which he spoke to them. [7], Then said Jesus to them again, Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. [8], All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. [9], I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. [10], The thief comes not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more

JOHN 10:26-27 [25], Jesus answered them, I told you, and you believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. [26], But you believe not, because you are not of my sheep, as I said to you. [27], MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE AND I KNOW THEM AND THEY FOLLOW ME.

JOHN 3:16-21 [16], For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIVE. [17], For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. [18], HE THAT BELIEVES ON HIM IS NOT CONDEMNED: BUT HE THAT BELIEVES NOT IS CONDEMNED ALREADY BECAUSE HE HAS NOT BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. [19], And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. [20], For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. [21], BUT HE THAT DOES TRUTH COMES TO THE LIGHT THAT HIS DEEDS MAY BE MANIFEST THAT THEY ARE WORKED IN GOD.

MATTHEW 7:21 Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; BUT HE THAT DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.

1 JOHN 2:17 And the world passes away, and the lust thereof: BUT HE THAT DOES THE WILL OF GOD STAYS FOREVER.

ROMANS 2:5-13 [5], But after your hardness and impenitent heart treasure up to yourself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; [6], WHO WILL RENDER EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: [7], TO THEM WHO BY PATIENT CONTINUANCE IN WELL DOING SEEK FOR GLORY AND HONOR AND IMMORTALITY AND ETERNAL LIFE; [8], BUT TO THEM THAT ARE CONTENTIOUS AND DO NOT OBEY THE TRUTH, INDIGNATION AND WRATH, [9], TRIBULATION AND ANGUISH ON EVERY SOUL OF MAN that DOES EVIL, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; [10], BUT GLORY, HONOR AND PEACE TO EVERY MAN THAT WORKS GOOD, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: [11], For there is no respect of persons with God. [12], FOR AS MANY AS HAVE SINNED WITHOUT THE LAW SHALL PERISH WITHOUT THE LAW AND AS MANY AS HAVE SINNED IN THE LAW SHALL BE JUDGET BY THE LAW: [13], FOR NOT THE HEARERS OF THE LAS ARE JUST BEFORE GOD GBUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.

Too many more scriptues we will stop here..

God bless

 

Hello canadyid. The scriptures say..

HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], FOR IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for those (1) WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, and (2) HAVE TASTED THE HEAVENLY GIFT, and (3) WERE MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST, [5], And have (4) TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, and (5) THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME, [6], IF THEY (believers) SHALL FALL AWAY, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh and put him to an open shame. [7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God: [8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; WHOS END IS TO BE BURNED.

These scriptures are in reference to those who were once BELIEVERS that have FALLEN AWAY from believing and following God's Word. Note here "IF THEY", the CONTEXT being v4-5 is that of those who were once BELIEVERS present CONTEXT v6 "IF THEY SHALL FALL AWAY" that is leave the faith "TO RENEW THEMSELVES TO REPENTANCE"

They cannot renew themselves to repentance because they turned away from the truth of God's Word having once understood God's plan of salvation. This is not talking about someone that was struggling with sin but someone that has left the faith.

Note: "IT IS IMPOSSIBLE" (v4) "IF THEY FALL AWAY" (leave the faith v6); "TO RENEW THEM AGAIN TO REPENTANCE" (v6). It is impossible since they have FALLEN away and departed the faith when it is the very faith they have departed from that is the only way they can be made right with God. The scriptures are saying since they deny the faith they have no other means of salvation. It is not saying God cannot save them. They cannot save themselves or can anyone else for that matter but what is impossible for men; all things are possible with God * MATTHEW 19:26.

These same thoughts are further expressed in...

HEBREWS 10:26-31 [26], FOR IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. [28], He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: [29], OF HOW MUCH SORER PUNISHMENT SUPPOSE YOU SHALL HE BE THOUGHT WORTHY WHO HAS TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD AND HAS COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT AN UNHOLY THING AND HAS DONE DESPITE TO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE? [30], For we know him that has said, Vengeance belongs to me, I will recompense, said the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. [31], It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

I am not much for commentaries but there is some further commentary thoughts here if you are interested

Hope this helps.

God bless.

 

Hello MB, nice to see you again. I am not sure what your post has to do with anything in this thread or what I have posted here or elsewhere but I have provided some comments for your consideration below.

Your response...

None of us are "UNDER THE LAW" if we have through faith repented and confessed our sins and believe God's Word *ROMANS 8:1-4; 1 JOHN 1:9; ACTS 2:38. We are only "UNDER THE LAW" if we stand before God guilty of breaking it *ROMANS 3:19-20. We are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *EPHESIANS 2:8-9. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD by faith that works by LOVE. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *ROMANS 6:1-23; JOHN 8:31-36. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the NEW COVENANT promise to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. This is God's work in us and a part of the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

I have never said any such thing. I have only said we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and without Christ we can do nothing. The GOOD NEWS of the Gospel of JESUS Christ is that we have a Saviour that saves us from sin, not to continue in sin *JOHN 8:31-36. All those who continue in known unrepentant sin need to be born again to walk in the Spirit or they will not enter into the kingdom of Heaven *JOHN 3:3-8; GALATIANS 5:16. Sin (breaking God's LAW) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:6-10. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter into the kingdom of heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; ROMANS 8:13; HEBREWS 10:26-31; HEBREWS 6:4-8.

It seems you are confused as to what is being shared here.

Hope this helps your misunderstanding.

 

Hi Dave nice to meet you. Where did I ever write such things? I suggest you re-read the post you are responding to brother and read 1 JOHN 1:9; 1 JOHN 2:1-4. The post you are quoting from is in reference to known unrepentant sin

God bless

 

Not at all. Did you read post # 23 linked? It seems you did not. If you did what do you think the post and the the scriptures supplied mean? HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-31 which follows the same theme are God's Word not mine that show those who were once believers can depart the faith and return back to a life of known unrepentant sin and without God's help they will be lost as there is no other means whereby they can be saved. All through the OLD and NEW Testament scripture and in the OP provided here Gods Word teaches salvation is conditional on believing and following Gods Word in the present tense (the now). Many will come ot him on that day thinking they had salvation only to find out when it is too late that they were lost and never knew him *MATTHEW 7:22-23. You are free to believe as you wish but God's Word does not agree with you.

 

Hi Dave, the threashold of losing salvation according to the scriptures is a hardened heart that no longer wants to believe and follow God's Word that continues in known unreoentant sin *HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-27; JOHN 3:15-21. Please do not make up things no one is saying. We are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *EPHESIANS 2:8-9. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD by faith that works by LOVE. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *ROMANS 6:1-23; JOHN 8:31-36. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the NEW COVENANT promise to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. This is God's work in us and a part of the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.The GOOD NEWS of the Gospel of JESUS Christ is that we have a Saviour that saves us from sin, not to continue in sin *JOHN 8:31-36. All those who continue in known unrepentant sin need to be born again to walk in the Spirit or they will not enter into the kingdom of Heaven *JOHN 3:3-8; GALATIANS 5:16. Sin (breaking God's LAW) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:6-10. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter into the kingdom of heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; ROMANS 8:13; HEBREWS 10:26-31; HEBREWS 6:4-8.

 

Not really, but let's bring everything you are claiming here to the light of the scriptures. Please what truth is it that you claim I am dodging? You have to demy a lot of scripture to think that the scriptures provided in the OP do not show that salvation is conditional on believing and following God's Word.

Now MB, post # 1 linked here and post # 2 linked here show from the OLD and NEW Testament scriptures that both salvation and God's promises are conditional on believeing and following God's Word. I will also add post # 9 linked here.

Now in response all you have stated is your own words which are not God's Word claiming...

1. I am dodging truth and
2. nothing in the OP shows that salvation and God's Word is conditional on believing and following God's Word.

Now you have been provided God's Word which is not my words but God's. You in response provide your own words to argue against God's Word which are your words.

If you claim that what you are saying is true then prove it through the scriptures. If you cannot why do you not believe God's Word?

Something to think about. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear. This is only posted in love and as a help

Besides the OP this was posted just recently...

HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], FOR IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for those (1) WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, and (2) HAVE TASTED THE HEAVENLY GIFT, and (3) WERE MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST, [5], And have (4) TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, and (5) THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME, [6], IF THEY (believers) SHALL FALL AWAY, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh and put him to an open shame. [7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God: [8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; WHOS END IS TO BE BURNED.

These scriptures are in reference to those who were once BELIEVERS that have FALLEN AWAY from believing and following God's Word. Note here "IF THEY", the CONTEXT being v4-5 is that of those who were once BELIEVERS present CONTEXT v6 "IF THEY SHALL FALL AWAY" that is leave the faith "TO RENEW THEMSELVES TO REPENTANCE"

They cannot renew themselves to repentance because they turned away from the truth of God's Word having once understood God's plan of salvation. This is not talking about someone that was struggling with sin but someone that has left the faith.

Note: "IT IS IMPOSSIBLE" (v4) "IF THEY FALL AWAY" (leave the faith v6); "TO RENEW THEM AGAIN TO REPENTANCE" (v6). It is impossible since they have FALLEN away and departed the faith when it is the very faith they have departed from that is the only way they can be made right with God. The scriptures are saying since they deny the faith they have no other means of salvation. It is not saying God cannot save them. They cannot save themselves or can anyone else for that matter but what is impossible for men; all things are possible with God * MATTHEW 19:26.

These same thoughts are further expressed in...

HEBREWS 10:26-31 [26], FOR IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. [28], He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: [29], OF HOW MUCH SORER PUNISHMENT SUPPOSE YOU SHALL HE BE THOUGHT WORTHY WHO HAS TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD AND HAS COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT AN UNHOLY THING AND HAS DONE DESPITE TO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE? [30], For we know him that has said, Vengeance belongs to me, I will recompense, said the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. [31], It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

More Commentary thoughts here

Hope this helps.

 

Not at all. We have examined the passage of HEBREWS 6:4-8 scripture by scripture. You are the one misquoting the passage as has already been shown scripture by scripture. HEBREWS 6:4-8 as well as HEBREWS 10:26-31 are in reference and warnings to BELIEVERS not to depart from BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's Word which agrees with the many scriptures provided from the first two posts in the OP showing the salvation is conditional on believing and following God's Word. You have not been able to disprove this and ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear.

 

That is not true. According to the scriptures in HEBREWS 6:4-8 we are talking about those who were once BELIEVERS and had departed from the faith back to a life of sin. These scriptures agree and support the OP that show that salvation and God's promises are conditional on believing and following God's Word.

You really dont see that these scriptures are talking about believers when it is God's Word not mine that says they were...

Posted elsewhere

HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those (1) WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, and (2) HAVE TASTED THE HEAVENLY GIFT, and (3) WERE MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST, [5], And have (4) TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, and (5) THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME,

Who are we talking about here; BELIEVERS of UNBELIEVERS? Were these BELIEVERS Born again christians

The application here is to those who were once BELIEVERS but have fallen away from the faith...

1. Having been enlightened v4;
2. Having tasted of the Heavenly gift v4;
3. Having been made partakers of the Holy Ghost v5;
4. Having tasted of the good Word of God v4;
5. Having tasted of the power of the world to come v5

[6], IF THEY (believers) SHALL FALL AWAY, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh and put him to an open shame.

Yep, BELIEVERS having fallen away from the HEAVENLY gift back into sin..

You do not have to believe God's Word if you do not want to, it is up to you.

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word)