Calvinism, Arminianism, how can we find what is the true doctrine from God?

There is the CRANE. No scriptures just a Crane. CATHOLICS 1, CALVINIST 0

 

We Calvinists won long time ago, was called Reformation!

 

We won long before that, He is called Jesus Christ.

 

We have Him risen indeed, while you still have Him on the Cross!

 

Thank you Dave. If our friend does not heed what God is saying, we cannot remove the obstacle. Thank you for your gracious approach. It is a joy to know our Father is Sovereign over all.

Peace

 

Jesus told us what we must do. You shove him in a closet and muffle what he teaches for your own idea about what someone ELSE teaches.

 

The best case for total depravity and elect favoritism is only an absolute MORON would hear the command of God and not figure that was God's sincere want and desire.

So rather then believe that there are that anyone is a fool, it might be better to believe God has intervened for the education of others.

God commands ALL MANKIND not to sin, GOD Wants no one one earth to sin.

If we meet a complete stranger we know TWO things off the bat. God wants and desires him to LOVE GOD and LOVE NEIGHBOR. We know God does not want the stranger to sin. We know God wants the stranger to repent. He wants them saved.

If he does not want them saved, just the opposite he would WANT and DESIRE them to do evil. The Devil already has that job!

 

You have created a false conclusion.

God does desire his creation to be healed and to worship Him.
God gave the moral law as a standard for all humanity to follow.
The Holy Spirit holds back the full wickedness and rebellion of man against the Creator.
God, in love, would be just to condemn all humanity because of our rebellion.
God has no obligation to redeem humanity and is a fully loving Creator if he chooses not to redeem anyone.

Utilyan, you seem to think God is unfair if he chooses to be gracious to some, but not all. Why would God be unfair in displaying his Sovereign right to choose, utilyan?

 

So you think God is not fair? Just called fair?

You think God exercises a right to LIE?

Suppose here is a stranger. He commands that this person Love God and Love Neighbor.

What part of that command gives you the impression God wants this person to burn in hell?



We are talking about God's proclaimed DESIRE and WANT prior to anyone even born.

Sin is a SIN because one is doing something GOD does not want or desire them to do.

Punishment and condemnation? Amen let him destroy all. I ain't got problem with being cold punishment if it works to God's pleasure.

I don't want dirt in my pool, you thrown some mud in there, I will chew you out. How does my "right" to chew anyone out change the fact I don't want dirt in my pool?

I want you to focus on God's SINCERITY in the foremost desire.

Yes God has a right to make you swallow whole watermelons, You tap dancing around the real question.

Does God WANT and DESIRE anyone in rebellion? REALLY?
Does God WANT AND DESIRE his COMMAND to be followed? REALLY?

This is so common sense to Christians, SO PRESCHOOL, you are unlikely to hear this from anyone but me.

You would have to have a mental condition not to get this which is why another likelihood a God given depravity/punishment might actually exist.

Just think about any person in front of your face, Does God want them to Love God and Neighbor? Answer this.

Human beings might just say things like I want and desire to be friends and stab folks in the back. God does not.

 

A person can tell me something so complex it is over my head. Likewise a person can tell me something so simple its under my head, as they say the answer is right under your nose. I'm trying to explain to you something right under your nose.

Does God want this stranger here to sin? He command that they Love God and Love neighbor, he commands that they don't sin.

Here is the response I am wanting from you.

When God commands a person not to sin, he really only means it 10%-20%, He doesn't genuinely want them not to sin, He doesn't honestly want them not to sin. He just wants them not to sin in as much as he expects them to fail.

Do you believe God does not want you to sin? 100% really does not want you to sin ever again?

 

God is fair and just. Do you think God is fair and just when he exercises his Sovereign choice?

Is God a liar when He exercises His Sovereign choice to save sinners by grace.

Why are you speaking in supposition when we are discussing the Sovereign God?

What specific command are you referring to?

What passage are you referring to in scripture?

Agreed. Sin nature is the natural response of mankind toward God's law. By our nature we are born in sin.

It works to God's justice. It is a loving act of any judge to justly sentence a sinner for his crime. God is just and that is an act of love.

This sentence makes no sense. What are you actually, specifically talking about?

Again, what are you talking about. Which Bible passage are you referring to?

Not sure what you are talking about with this comment. It seems you are struggling to make a coherent statement. Please be so kind to tell us what the "real" question is.

God ordains that humans are born in sin because Adam broke covenant with God. Adam brought the curse on all humanity.
The question is: Does God ordain that all sinners be redeemed? The answer is...No.

Yes, really.

Yes, God does what He ordains to be done. The Corona virus is ordained by God.

Indeed, anyone who reads the Bible knows that humans are by nature sinful. They know that God establishes covenants. They know that God has a chosen people of the promise. They know that promise is to Redeem His people.
This is elementary to anyone who reads the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.

You are correct. Your position is unique to you. That should be a red flag to you.

This just seems like a personal attack and anger on your part, with no biblical support.

Want? I cannot answer that as God is Sovereign. He may have created them as a vessel of wrath. (see Romans 9)
God may ordain that they Love Him and that they love their neighbor. However, that person is, by nature, rebellious toward God.

Indeed, when God chooses to be your friend, he does not betray you.
Humans do lie. Many claim to be Christian, but God never chose to adopt them as his children. Those person's are like Judas. They will betray themselves by their theology and their selfish purposes. God knows their hearts. God knows their deception as wolves among the sheep.

 

Read my last post, you are proving my point.

I asked Does God want them to Love God and Neighbor? Answer this.

You answered: Want? I cannot answer that as God is Sovereign.

You accuse God of being a LIAR.

Satan questioned the command of God. So when God commands DON'T eat the fruit, Satan says Does that really mean God doesn't want you to eat the fruit? Your response "Want? I cannot answer that as God is Sovereign. "


If Someone asked you does God want them to murder your child what is going to be your response? --> Want? I cannot answer that as God is Sovereign.

Do you see how stupid this sounds?

 

Want and ordain are two different things, utilyan.
I can want people to be adopted by God. I cannot ordain it to happen.

God wants us to love him. God wants us to love our neighbor.

God does not ordain that everyone love him. God does not ordain that everyone love their neighbors.

God leaves people in their sin or he, by grace, chooses to redeem them from their sins.

Romans 1:18-25 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

Utilyan, scripture is clear and you are wrong about God. Instead, you actually accuse God without knowing what you do.

 

Yes want and ordain are two different things. So lets clarify what God WANTS AND DESIRES FIRST.

For example God does not want you to SIN ever again, not today, not tomorrow, not yesterday.

Do you agree God has never wanted you to sin EVER, yet you have because God ordains it so?

 

Sure, God doesn't want me to sin, but God ordains that I have the capacity to sin.

God wants all people to repent, but God does not ordain that all people will repent.

 

"God wants all people to repent, but God does not ordain that all people will repent."

Correct. God wants and desires all people to be saved, but God does not ordain that all people will be saved.

Is this right?

 

Did I stutter?

 

If your not confirming then you are stuttering.

 

How so?

Is God horrible and mean and cruel to not save all humanity?

 

No. If something is totally corrupt as to be evil there is nothing there to save.

It would be evil on God's part not to destroy all that is evil even. That said we both have different interpretations on the means by which God does so.

This however is irrelevant to my question which you are still not confirming.

God wants and desires all people to be saved, but God does not ordain that all people will be saved.
Is this right? as in correct and accurate?

The kind of answer I am expecting is....Yes that is right. or No that is wrong.

"God wants all people to repent, but God does not ordain that all people will repent."

Your telling us God doesn't ordain what he wants, So its fascinating to find out who you think the real boss is since you obviously don't think its God.