Jesus sweating blood

So then according to you, Jesus was hoping that the death on the cross (as opposed to what I have been saying, death in the Garden) would not happen, and that would make Him a false prophet. Is that correct? (See my post #19.)

 

Well maybe. But Hebrews 5:7-8 argues, ". . . Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; . . ." Matthew 26:38-39, ". . . My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: . . . prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: . . ."

 

No. That's not at all what I'm saying. He asked not to be left in the grave and God heard Him. He raised Him from the dead.

Something about that hard for you to understand?

 

Sorry, I'm missing your point here.

 

I understand you perfectly. But my point remains. If Jesus prayed in the Garden prayer to avoid the death on the cross, then He was asking to become a false prophet. He "set His face to go to Jerusalem" (Luke 9:51). He was ready and willing to go to the cross, and did not try nor wish to avoid it.

One cannot hold intelligently to the view that Jesus was praying to avoid the cross without dealing with this issue.

 

No, you misunderstand me perfectly.

Again, not all what I'm saying. Did you not read post #16?:

"Compare v 39:

39 And he went forward a little, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass away from me: nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt.

With v 53:

53 Or thinkest thou that I cannot beseech my Father, and he shall even now send me more than twelve legions of angels?

...and know that Christ COULD HAVE circumvented the cross simply by asking, but that's not what He was requesting in v 39."

 

Okay, I reread post #16, and fully admit that I have no clue what you are trying to say. We are obviously talking about different subjects, but I'm not sure what yours is regarding the Garden prayer.

Do you or do you not believe that in the Garden Jesus was praying to avoid the cross? Because I can't tell from taking a second look at what you've written. It should be a fairly simple exegesis, but what you are trying to say seems to me to be needlessly complicated. Verses you've referenced seem to me to be unconnected.

 

Not.

He asked not to be left in the grave and God heard Him. God raised Him from the dead.

Something about that hard for you to understand?

 

Okay, thank you. I've never heard of this position before, but I think you have a point.

Not when you state it clearly like this.

 

I copied and pasted post #23.

 

Sorry I missed it.

 

Did you also miss the references to the Messianic Psalms, post #20?

 

Ok. In Hebrews 5:8, ". . . yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; . . ." Him being the Son to be our High priest, what was obedience He was to learn by His suffering? Per Hebrews 5:7-8.

 

Frankly, I disagree with your interpretation, so I don't believe those references apply to the Garden of Gethsemane.

 

Again, I don't know where you are going with this. What do you believe the obedience He learned was?

 

In His praying He asked to some how get out of what He came to do. Noting in Him asking that He did so being the Son in really being a man that He was. Nothing else makes sense. He always had it in His power to to get out of it without asking.

 

Titus 1:2 and Isaiah 53:6 as having already been done and being the yet future event means that what Christ did going to the cross could not have not happened.

 

Thank you for the clarification.

I see that as reading into the text. "Learned obedience" could also fit exactly with my interpretation: Christ submitted Himself to the Father's will, whether it be to die in the Garden and be resurrected there to face the cross. Either way, He knew He had to go to the cross, since He Himself had prophesied that, and He could not become a false prophet. So, He could not possibly have prayed to avoid the cross.

 

So you're content with the assumption that Satan tried to kill Jesus with a bad case of hematidrosis. Got it.

 

Matthew 26:38, ". . . My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: . . ." So you see this as the cup Jesus asked the Father to remove from Him. But then why would it be the Father's will that He simply die in that garden? Matthew 26:39, ". . . prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. . . ." I am not quit understanding something here.