Featured 3 John

I want to look at a text and how it has been applied on another thread.

The text is 3 John verses 6-8. Since 3 John is so brief I have provided it for context and discussion.

The Third Letter of JOHN

1 The elder to the beloved Gaius, whom I love in truth.
2 Beloved, I pray that in all respects you may prosper and be in good health, just as your soul prospers.
3 For I was very glad when brethren came and testified to your truth, that is, how you are walking in truth.
4 I have no greater joy than this, to hear of my children walking in the truth.
5 Beloved, you are acting faithfully in whatever you accomplish for the brethren, and especially when they are strangers;
6 and they have testified to your love before the church. You will do well to send them on their way in a manner worthy of God.
7 For they went out for the sake of the Name, accepting nothing from the Gentiles.
8 Therefore we ought to support such men, so that we may be fellow workers with the truth.
9 I wrote something to the church; but Diotrephes, who loves to be first among them, does not accept what we say.
10 For this reason, if I come, I will call attention to his deeds which he does, unjustly accusing us with wicked words; and not satisfied with this, he himself does not receive the brethren, either, and he forbids those who desire to do so and puts them out of the church.
11 Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. The one who does good is of God; the one who does evil has not seen God.
12 Demetrius has received a good testimony from everyone, and from the truth itself; and we add our testimony, and you know that our testimony is true.
13 I had many things to write to you, but I am not willing to write them to you with pen and ink;
14 but I hope to see you shortly, and we will speak face to face.
15 Peace be to you. The friends greet you. Greet the friends by name.

 

The interpretation offered on another thread is that this passage supports the idea that God gifted us teachers in the form of 17th Century Reformed writings which are the equivalent to teachers in 3 John going from church to church and any who oppose these Reformed writers are opposing God in the manner of Demetrius.

 

Who are the ones going out (the ones received by the churches)? What were they doing?

Were they going from church to church teaching the congregation?

Does the passage equate to congregations receiving books?

 

I doubt very seriously that Diotrephes ever posted on a discussion board, so any comparison to my posting style is fabricated.

But let's examine the passage.

Who was Diotrephes? We don't know, other than he was a church leader (we do not what church) who hindered those desiring to show hospitality to traveling brothers who were spreading the gospel.

Was he hindering teachers of the church? No. He was hindering what we would call evangelists (ministering to the lost....here the Gentiles). Ironically he was probably a Gentile convert (his name).

Was he stopping them from reading books? Not that we know of.

Once again you have misused Scripture and tried to make your accusations look godly when in fact they are the opposite.

If anything you would come closer to fitting the description. You hold your self highly, expect people to praise your philosophy, and try to expel those who disagree with you.

All I am saying is we need to believe "what is written". That is all I have said for months. And all you have done is insult those of us who do not accept what you believe the Bible teaches.

 

There is a difference between applying Scripture and twisting it to try to make an argument look biblical.

We have to look at what was happening in the passage concerning Diotrephes.

Diotrephes had some influence within the church and was hindering those teaching out with the gospel. The evangelists should have been able to count on the support of the church and the church should have joyfully provided for them.

We know Diotrephes was set in his ways, considered himself superior, and hindered the evangelists to the point he wanted to expel them. We do not know the exact reason.


Can this be applied to mean Christians who do not believe we should hold books as types of authorities for doctrine or supplements to God's Word are like Diotrephes?

No, it cannot because the idea that we have one source to text doctrine (the text of Scripture) is not remotely the same situation.

However, you exegete the passage and show us exactly how it applies to Christians that believe extra-biblical books can be helpful but should never be our authority of doctrine.

I look forward to your explanation.

 

I agree. There is an inherent problem when people move away from what is written in Scripture to follow what other people believe Scripture teaches.

And there are several on this board who do exactly that. They will tell you it is not "what is written" but what is "taught" when "properly understood" and God gave us Reformed teachers (books) to properly understand.

 

My point is Christians should not be trying to extract teachings from the works of Owen, John Wesley, etc. We should be looking to Scripture.

One can extract teachings from the Book of Mormon. And, depending on your ministry, it could be a benefit to know what the Book of Mormon says. There are some things in the Book of Mormon that are true. But God did not give the Book of Mormon as our teacher.

Owen and Wesley were Christians (I was using Mormons as an illustration). And we can gain some insight of how they believed, the circumstances in which they wrote, their worldviews, etc.

But God gives teachers (real ones) to the congregations that make up a body (churches). There is a pastor (or overseer), there are teachers, and there are evangelists.

When you reply on the works of men like Owen and Wesley you are becoming your own teacher, your own mentor, your own standard.

A Christian is not a lone wolf but a member of a pack (a family, a functioning part of a body).

 

That was an illustration. To rephrase according to your wording - a Christian is not lone sheep, but a member of a flock. The sheep may get lost (may be carried away by vain philosophies) but the Shepherd will find it and bring it back to the other sheep.

A Christian who chooses to disciple himself on books as his teachers is a lost sheep, forsaking the flock and his role in the flock.

When we rely on books as our teacher we are essentially teaching ourselves.

Take John Owen, for example. A Baptist will not accept all that Owen wrote, but if that Baptist considers his books as his teacher then he is choosing what of Owen to believe and what of Owen to dismiss.