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Today's Gospel vs. The Gospel of Christ

Discussion in 'Other Discussions' started by KenH, May 6, 2022.

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  1. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Well the purpose of Salvation is all God's purpose according to election, but if your question is, what is our purpose? Fleeing the wrath to come is as valid and good and as virtuous a reason as any other.
     
    #21 Aaron, May 6, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another "find fault by the invention of man" thread!

    What is the gospel? The good news is that although humanity is condemned and will suffer eternal punishment, God has provided a means of salvation available to all people.

    Thus today's alternate says salvation is not available to all people and there is nothing you can do to seek salvation for yourself or your loved ones.

    Today's alternate gospel falsely asserts the actual gospel says "Christ died to save everybody." But that is just one of many strawman arguments. Christ died to provide the means to save everybody, but only those God chooses by setting them apart within Christ after crediting their faith as righteousness are saved, since many are invited but few are chosen, Christ did not die to save everybody.

    The actual gospel of Christ says the saved are made righteous through Christ's obedient death on the cross, not declared righteous, Romans 5:19.

    God saves everyone He chooses to saved, which is the actual gospel.

    Today's alternate gospel denies our post salvation service to earn rewards, such that we enter heaven "abundantly."
     
    #22 Van, May 7, 2022
    Last edited: May 7, 2022
  3. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I am more, much more, than satisfied that Christ is my reward - Genesis 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward. (emphasis mine)


    Concerning works:

    Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (emphasis mine)

    Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. (emphasis mine)

    "Our choices and actions remain under God's control after regeneration. Therefore, although a person is conscious of his efforts and struggles in sanctification, in the end God receives the honor, and the Christian still has no basis to boast of his achievements." - Vincent Cheung, Systematic Theology


    Concerning righteousness:

    Romans 4:6-8 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, And whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. (emphasis mine)

    For those who may not be familiar with the Biblical doctrine of imputation, here is a modern translation using words that may be more familiar to younger folks who did not grow up using the KJV, but the words mean the same thing as imputation:

    Romans 4:6-8 So even David himself speaks regarding the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the one against whom the Lord will never count sin.” (emphasis mine)

    Thayer's Greek Lexicon on logizomai, the Greek word translated "imputeth": "to reckon, count, compute, calculate, count over"
     
    #23 KenH, May 7, 2022
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Genesis 15:1 says God spoke to Abram in a vision, and does not refer to Christ's salvation but to God's protection. Once again we have Calvinism reading into the text what is not there.

    Ephesians 2:10 affirms after we are saved, including being born anew as a new creation, our ministry is reconciliation.

    Philippians 2:13 describes our indwelt Helper's influence to serve Christ.

    Our post salvation choices are still somewhat autonomous, as our ministry may or may not earn rewards. And of course God gets the honor as everything good comes from God.

    This Calvinist posts endless advocacy of using the arcane translation choice of "imputeth." Thus this poster does not grasp the difference of when God either credits or does not credit our human actions for good or ill, and being made righteous through the blood of the Lamb. Incredible.
     
    #24 Van, May 7, 2022
    Last edited: May 7, 2022
  5. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    No! Man is never autonomous. God is absolutely sovereign. Period.

    God is sovereign...all the time.

    Isaiah 45:7-9 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it. Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

    Proverbs 16:3 The lot is cast into the lap; But the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

    Proverbs 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, As the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

    Daniel 4:5 and all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

    Romans 9:20-21 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
     
    #25 KenH, May 7, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    More fictional Calvinism fallacies on display. Unless humans are autonomous to a degree, God is the author of sin. Calvinism claims we are not autonomous yet somehow God is not the author of sin. Cognitive Dissonance anyone?

    God is sovereign all the time in that He either causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass.

    Since God created us with the ability to choose life or death, God created our ability to make autonomous choices. Thus this attribute is according to the will of God, and it is a Calvinist fiction to claim otherwise.

    Yes humanity operates within the purview allowed by God, and He can and does harden hearts to remove what had been possible choices. God is indeed Almighty, but since He allows us to make choices, those that claim we cannot make autonomous choices deny His power.
     
    #26 Van, May 7, 2022
  7. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    If that is the case, then you should stop calling me a Calvinist. I am planning, the Lord willing, to study more upon this subject sometime in the future. Thus, at this point, I am in neither camp. Further, thus, if one must come down on the side of God not being the Author of sin in order to be a Calvinist by your definition above, then you cannot call me a Calvinist by your own definition of the term.
     
    #27 KenH, May 7, 2022
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Note the change the subject to what is a Calvinist, rather than the gospel of Christ compared with Calvinism.

    No amount of running from Calvinism will alter the fact Calvinism is fictional nonsense. Unless humans are autonomous to a degree, God is the author of sin. Calvinism claims we are not autonomous yet somehow God is not the author of sin. Cognitive Dissonance anyone?

    God is sovereign all the time in that He either causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass. Humanity operates within the purview allowed by God, and He can and does harden hearts to remove what had been possible choices. God is indeed Almighty, but since He allows us to make choices, those that claim we cannot make autonomous choices deny His power.

    What is the gospel? The good news is that although humanity is condemned and will suffer eternal punishment, God has provided a means of salvation available to all people.
     
    #28 Van, May 7, 2022
  9. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Notice the change from the subject of the poster calling me a name which, by the poster's own definition, I am not. Yet, he refuses to admit his fallacy.

    Instead, he goes back to the false teaching that God only made people salvable and attacks the gospel of Christ that states that salvation is of the Lord(Joshua 2:9) and that Christ saves(Matthew 1:21) His people(not merely makes them salvable if they will do something on their end).

    It is despicable that some mere creatures try to make the case that their Creator is begging them to please let Him save them. These mere creatures claim that their will is stronger than the will of God, and that the mere creature has the final say. They may try to deny it, but the practical impact of what they teach is unavoidable.
     
    #29 KenH, May 7, 2022
    Last edited: May 7, 2022
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    More false claims and efforts to change the subject.
    Did I say or suggest God only made people savable? Or did I say "God saves everyone He chooses to save," which is the actual gospel." This poster just makes it up and posts it.
    Did I say people must allow God to save them by willing or doing stuff to be saved? Nope. Here is what I said, "Christ died to provide the means to save everybody, but only those God chooses by setting them apart within Christ after crediting their faith as righteousness are saved, since many are invited but few are chosen, Christ did not die to save everybody. For the umpteenth time, salvation does not depend on the person who wills or works to be saved, but upon God alone. Romans 9:16

    Folks, like all the rest of the Calvinist efforts to defend their obviously false doctrine, the defender just makes up one false charge after another and posts.
     
    #30 Van, May 7, 2022
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