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Featured Whosoever - John 3:16

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Salty, Aug 20, 2022.

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  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I am not missing the Biblical points at all. You are. Why? I do not think you know. "They had not been chosen and thus they were rejected." Not elect. Why would the many not be elect? Matthew 22:14. Matthew 20:28. [Revelation 3:5, Revelation 20:15, Matthew 7:21-23, John 12:50, Romans 6:23.] It is not a secret.
     
  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Nope. You are forcing a distinction and missing the point Jesus made in the parable. Jesus is reminding us that we don't enter the wedding feast because we choose to enter. We enter because the King chose us. That choice was made before the foundation of the world. This is why the one person was not allowed to join the feast. His will did not overrule the Kings rule.

    Election and chosing are synonymous.
     
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    How are they, election [Matthew 22:14], choosing [Ephesians 1:4], synonymous? Do you know why I say they are not synonymous? How is my reason true, but I am wrong?
     
  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, I can't imagine how you don't see them as synonyms. Both are the sovereign choice of God.
    Is this difficult for you because you demand a timeline?
    In both passages God is the cause agent, the one who chooses. God chose the adoption and God chose the wedding guests. We humans do not choose our salvation.
     
  5. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Mark 13:29. ".......But for the elect's sake, whom He has chosen....."
     
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  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Demonstrates the terms are not to be synonymous, as per usage in Ephesians 1:4 and Matthew 22:14.
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You admit you do not understand their distinction in usage. Ephesians 1:4, Mark 13:20 and Matthew 22:14.
     
  8. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus used a good many "whoevers", but not one "whoever if elect". Just look up the Greek for every whoever in the NT & you should conclude that salvation is open to everyone living.
     
  9. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Yet, Matthew starts out with a particular salvation.

    *Matthew 1:20-21*

    But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”

    Pay attention to the believe because it guides the whosoever in the verse.
     
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  10. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I state that you are attempting to make a distinction where there actually is an agreement. Chosen and Elect are in fact synonyms.
     
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  11. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    :D nope not even a little bit.
     
  12. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Where does that say it takes place in the lifetime of the believer? It doesn't.
     
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  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Not any attempt, I make the Biblical distinction. Which you, it does seem, refuse to accept as true. Ephesians 1:4 is not the election in Matthew 22:14.
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 22:14, "For many are called, but few are chosen." Few are elect.
     
  15. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Yep, still has nothing to do with their lifetime.
     
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  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Saying that doesn't make it so. You do not agree with my understanding. Unless you can show you understand the reasons for my view side by side with your view. Telling me my view is wrong meaningless.
     
    #56 37818, Aug 24, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2022
  17. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Well, in Mark 13:20, both eklektous and exelexato come from the same verb, eklego, meaning to 'choose' or 'select.' I can parse the two words if you want.
    So riddle me this, Batman: how come you think the two words have different meanings?
     
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  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The two related words are in fact used differently. Both words are used in Mark 13:20. Both for the election as in Matthew 22:14 and having been chosen as in Ephesians 1:4.
     
  19. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    your view is wrong because that isn't what the passage states and is in direct disagreement with other Scriptures. You read that into the passage. That's eisegesis.
     
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  20. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    You are arguing out of both sides of your mouth. In one, you use election and chosen as synonyms then try to claim they are not. Which is it?
     
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