Whosoever - John 3:16

[37818]

No

*Ephesians 1:3-6*

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

*Matthew 22:11-14*

“But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ For many are called, but few are chosen.”

In Matthew 22, Jesus is showing us that only those whom God gives the wedding garment are allowed into the feast. The person in the parable tried to get in on their terms without having been given the garment. They had not been chosen and thus they were rejected.

You are attempting to compare two passages, but you have missed Jesus point.

I am not missing the Biblical points at all. You are. Why? I do not think you know. "They had not been chosen and thus they were rejected." Not elect. Why would the many not be elect? Matthew 22:14. Matthew 20:28. [Revelation 3:5, Revelation 20:15, Matthew 7:21-23, John 12:50, Romans 6:23.] It is not a secret.

 

[AustinC]

I am not missing the Biblical points at all. You are. Why? I do not think you know. "They had not been chosen and thus they were rejected." Not elect. Why would the many not be elect? Matthew 22:14. Matthew 20:28. [Revelation 3:5, Revelation 20:15, Matthew 7:21-23, John 12:50, Romans 6:23.] It is not a secret.

Nope. You are forcing a distinction and missing the point Jesus made in the parable. Jesus is reminding us that we don't enter the wedding feast because we choose to enter. We enter because the King chose us. That choice was made before the foundation of the world. This is why the one person was not allowed to join the feast. His will did not overrule the Kings rule.

Election and chosing are synonymous.

 

[37818]

Nope. You are forcing a distinction and missing the point Jesus made in the parable. Jesus is reminding us that we don't enter the wedding feast because we choose to enter. We enter because the King chose us. That choice was made before the foundation of the world. This is why the one person was not allowed to join the feast. His will did not overrule the Kings rule.

Election and chosing are synonymous.

How are they, election [Matthew 22:14], choosing [Ephesians 1:4], synonymous? Do you know why I say they are not synonymous? How is my reason true, but I am wrong?

 

[AustinC]

How are they, election [Matthew 22:14], choosing [Ephesians 1:4], synonymous? Do you know why I say they are not synonymous? How is my reason true, but I am wrong?

Honestly, I can't imagine how you don't see them as synonyms. Both are the sovereign choice of God.
Is this difficult for you because you demand a timeline?
In both passages God is the cause agent, the one who chooses. God chose the adoption and God chose the wedding guests. We humans do not choose our salvation.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

How are they, election [Matthew 22:14], choosing [Ephesians 1:4], synonymous? Do you know why I say they are not synonymous? How is my reason true, but I am wrong?

Mark 13:29. ".......But for the elect's sake, whom He has chosen....."

 

[37818]

Mark 13:2[0]. ".......But for the elect's sake, whom He has chosen....."

Demonstrates the terms are not to be synonymous, as per usage in Ephesians 1:4 and Matthew 22:14.

 

[37818]

Honestly, I can't imagine how you don't see them as synonyms. Both are the sovereign choice of God.
Is this difficult for you because you demand a timeline?
In both passages God is the cause agent, the one who chooses. God chose the adoption and God chose the wedding guests. We humans do not choose our salvation.

You admit you do not understand their distinction in usage. Ephesians 1:4, Mark 13:20 and Matthew 22:14.

 

[robycop3]

Jesus used a good many "whoevers", but not one "whoever if elect". Just look up the Greek for every whoever in the NT & you should conclude that salvation is open to everyone living.

 

[AustinC]

Jesus used a good many "whoevers", but not one "whoever if elect". Just look up the Greek for every whoever in the NT & you should conclude that salvation is open to everyone living.

Yet, Matthew starts out with a particular salvation.

*Matthew 1:20-21*

But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”

Pay attention to the believe because it guides the whosoever in the verse.

 

[AustinC]

You admit you do not understand their distinction in usage. Ephesians 1:4, Mark 13:20 and Matthew 22:14.

I state that you are attempting to make a distinction where there actually is an agreement. Chosen and Elect are in fact synonyms.

 

[Reformed1689]

So your now promoting universalism.

nope not even a little bit.

 

[Reformed1689]

No, they are not. One happened before the creation of mankind, Ephesians 1:3-4. The "election" takes place in the believers life time, Matthew 22:14.

Where does that say it takes place in the lifetime of the believer? It doesn't.

 

[37818]

I state that you are attempting to make a distinction where there actually is an agreement. Chosen and Elect are in fact synonyms.

Not any attempt, I make the Biblical distinction. Which you, it does seem, refuse to accept as true. Ephesians 1:4 is not the election in Matthew 22:14.

 

[37818]

Where does that say it takes place in the lifetime of the believer? It doesn't.

Matthew 22:14, "For many are called, but few are chosen." Few are elect.

 

[Reformed1689]

Matthew 22:14, "For many are called, but few are chosen." Few are elect.

Yep, still has nothing to do with their lifetime.

 

[37818]

Yep, still has nothing to do with their lifetime.

Saying that doesn't make it so. You do not agree with my understanding. Unless you can show you understand the reasons for my view side by side with your view. Telling me my view is wrong meaningless.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Demonstrates the terms are not to be synonymous, as per usage in Ephesians 1:4 and Matthew 22:14.

Well, in Mark 13:20, both eklektous and exelexato come from the same verb, eklego, meaning to 'choose' or 'select.' I can parse the two words if you want.
So riddle me this, Batman: how come you think the two words have different meanings?

 

[37818]

Well, in Mark 13:20, both eklektous and exelexato come from the same verb, eklego, meaning to 'choose' or 'select.' I can parse the two words if you want.
So riddle me this, Batman: how come you think the two words have different meanings?

The two related words are in fact used differently. Both words are used in Mark 13:20. Both for the election as in Matthew 22:14 and having been chosen as in Ephesians 1:4.

 

[Reformed1689]

Saying that doesn't make it so. You do not agree with my understanding. Unless you can show you understand the reasons for my view side by side with your view. Telling me my view is wrong meaningless.

your view is wrong because that isn't what the passage states and is in direct disagreement with other Scriptures. You read that into the passage. That's eisegesis.

 

[Reformed1689]

Matthew 22:14, "For many are called, but few are chosen." Few are elect.

The two related words are in fact used differently. Both words are used in Mark 13:20. Both for the election as in Matthew 22:14 and having been chosen as in Ephesians 1:4.

You are arguing out of both sides of your mouth. In one, you use election and chosen as synonyms then try to claim they are not. Which is it?