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Featured Christians, Music, and the Occult: What Should We Believe and Practice?

Discussion in 'Music Ministry' started by Scripture More Accurately, Oct 28, 2022.

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  1. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Amos is not speaking about the nonsense being called "social justice" today. He is speaking of an entirely different system. The churches are to be charitable, but Paul directs us in this charity. Paul is explicit that only the truly deserving are to be helped. I can guarantee you Paul would not support "BLM".
    I have no idea what you see in Amos 5. Nothing supporting the U.S. concept of "social justice".
     
    #41 Reynolds, Nov 3, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2022
  2. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Social justice is a term that has been around much longer than right-wing media. You’ve made an assumption that I’m talking about a right-wing caricature of social justice, not biblical social justice.

    It’s a completely different culture, but the issues are the same. He’s talking about oppression of the poor, letting greed overtake equity and compassion, and distortion of justice so that the wealthy and elites have one system of justice, and the poor have another. There’s more to unpack in the passage, but those are some of the basics.

    Actually Jesus and the leaders of the first century church said something quite different. Folks love to rip the “if you don’t work you don’t eat” phrase out of Paul’s writings and use that to undermine the full biblical witness. John points out that those who have material possessions and does not help their brother does not have the love of Christ in them (1 John 3:17). James defines pure and undefined religion as one that cares for widows and orphans (biblical shorthand for the poor and powerless) in James 1:27. He also blasts those who do not care for those who do not have the basic possessions of life — food shelter, and clothing — as having a dead faith (James 2:14-17).

    You are the only one talking about BLM. That group never occurred to me in considering this passage. You seem to be debating a Fox News parody of what you assume I am.

    That’s clear. You have been clueless the whole time, yet you accuse. I hope that’s a lesson to you.

    I never mentioned the United States or the right-wing media misconception of social justice. That’s on you.
     
    #42 Baptist Believer, Nov 3, 2022
  3. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    It does not matter whether this is "a burning issue" where I am from. The point of the thread is to establish biblically what Christians--regardless of where they are from--are to believe and practice concerning music and the occult.
     
    #43 Scripture More Accurately, Nov 13, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2022
  4. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    No, "the condemnation of sexual sin" is not just "aimed at those who are in positions of power, who use their power to oppress and abuse others."

    Paul condemned sexual sin by someone who was engaging in it while claiming to be a believer (1 Cor. 5:1), but he does not mention anything about the one who was committing that sin as being in a position of power.

    Paul then authoritatively declares that all those who are unrepentantly immoral will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 6:9-10). Trying to claim that this teaching only applies to those who were or are in positions of power and are immoral is false and reads into Paul's teaching what is not there.

    Jude reveals that God fiercely judged those who were sexually immoral in Sodom and Gomorrah (Jude 7). There is no legitimate way to say that God only judged those who were in positions of power in those cities and did so.
     
    #44 Scripture More Accurately, Nov 13, 2022
  5. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    You are ripping that out of context. Notice that I am referring to those who are powerless (slaves). Or perhaps you do understand and you would condemn the person who was raped as well as the rapist?

    Paul has enough faith in the Corinthian congregation to know they were not ignorant of the world in which they lived. Remember, 1 & 2 Corinthians was written for us, but not to us. We are responsible for understanding the context. You are condemned to misinterpret scripture if you refuse to study ALL of it in context, not just your favorite passages.

    True. And the Kingdom of God is already present and will overwhelm every other kingdom.

    It’s a good thing that I didn’t do that.

    Fortunately, I am not responsible for your mischaracterization.

    True. But their desire to rape was only a symptom of their deeper issues (Ezekiel 16:49-50) with social justice. The men of the city wanted to oppress/dominate the visiting angels through rape (like prison rape). It was sexual violence that had nothing to do with sexual desire. Otherwise Lot would not have offered his daughters.
     
    #45 Baptist Believer, Nov 13, 2022
  6. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    If what you are saying with these comments is that someone in our day who would commit the same sin (as this person did in Corinth in Paul's day) is not to be condemned for his sexual immorality, you are promoting false teaching.
     
    #46 Scripture More Accurately, Nov 13, 2022
  7. Keith Mullins

    Keith Mullins Member

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    Excuse my ignorance, but you keep posting in generalities that I do not understand with the extreme examples you give. I know you have a more specific goal that you pushing towards. Please provide a more realistic example of songs and instruments that are actually in widespread use in today's church so I can discuss intelligently.
     
    #47 Keith Mullins, Nov 27, 2022
  8. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    There is sufficient objective information available that shows that rock music is music of the occult. Christians who use rock music in worship disobey the divine prohibition against having fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness (Eph. 5:11).
     
    #48 Scripture More Accurately, Dec 3, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    #49 JonC, Dec 3, 2022
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  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    That could be said of any music that uses harmony or is based on scale rather than maqam.

    E.g., per your definition singing hymns like How Great Thou Art is having fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness because of the music.
     
    #50 JonC, Dec 3, 2022
  11. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    These statements are false and are merely your opinions. It is impossible for you to show factually that all music of the world was first originated or invented by occultists.
     
    #51 Scripture More Accurately, Dec 4, 2022
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Lol...no, my position that music based on harmony and scale differs from the music initially considered suitable for worship is not false or opinion. It is a fact. That you are unaware is a bit bewildering as it is no secret. Christians often rejected what we now accept as traditional.

    I never said that all music was developed by occultists. That is a very strange claim you make....particularly as I didn't being up occultists.

    Do you believe it is wrong to use secular music and instruments in worship (organs, drums, piano, harmony, a 12 octave scale, etc.)?

    Or are we back to anything that does not tickle your ears is wrong?
     
    #52 JonC, Dec 4, 2022
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Oh.....

    And do you find it ironic that the things you detest (like rhythm over harmony, drums, ect) were things that Jesus would have experienced in worship?
     
    #53 JonC, Dec 4, 2022
  14. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    Jesus did not experience any occult rhythms or drumming in worship. That is a bogus claim.
     
    #54 Scripture More Accurately, Dec 4, 2022
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  15. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    Speaking out against occult music is biblical. Your claim that I speak against occult music because it "does not tickle [my] ears" is false.
     
    #55 Scripture More Accurately, Dec 4, 2022
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Of course Jesus didn't worship in the occult.

    What I am saying is that Jesus would have experienced and worshiped worship where drums were used and the music was based in rhythm.

    I am saying that YOU call the way Chriat would worship satanic. Not that you are correct.

    Ancient Jews used at least the Tof Mirium. We have accounts (Exodus) of worship with drums and dancing (something you believe belongs to the occult). We know drums were used. We know the music was based in rhythm.

    By "we" I mean Christians I'm general.....not "you". You only seem to think worship must tickle your ears to please God.
     
    #56 JonC, Dec 4, 2022
  17. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    You repeatedly misrepresent what I say. I have never called all music that uses drums and rhythms satanic. That is a false claim that you are making.

    You fail to speak the truth when you say that I believe that the use of drums and dancing in the Exodus account was occult. I have never said any such thing.
     
    #57 Scripture More Accurately, Dec 4, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2022
  18. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Reading this thread for the first time rather late.
    And I haven’t read the full thread…

    What is your OPINION of using popular song music, bar songs or the like to back up the words of hymns?

    I have heard that a number of hymns written in the past century have appropriated this type of music.

    Rob
     
    #58 Deacon, Dec 4, 2022
  19. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    Did Luther use tunes from love songs? | Religious Affections Ministries: Conservative Christianity, Worship, Culture, Aesthetics, Classical Education, Homeschooling, Family
     
    #59 Scripture More Accurately, Dec 4, 2022
  20. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    As a youth I went to a group called Young Life.
    Our leader began each week with an attention getter.
    One week he had a contest where we were to sing AMAZING GRACE to different music.

    The winner sang the hymn to the tune of
    TAKE ME OUT TO THE BALL GAME.

    Rob
     
    #60 Deacon, Dec 4, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2022
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