salvation during the tribulation (pre-trib rapture)

HCSB 2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is based on Satan's working, with all kinds of false miracles, signs, and wonders,
2Th 2:10 and with every unrighteous deception among those who are perishing. They perish because they did not accept the love of the truth in order to be saved.
2Th 2:11 For this reason God sends them a strong delusion so that they will believe what is false,
2Th 2:12 so that all will be condemned--those who did not believe the truth but enjoyed unrighteousness.

My father alludes to the above passage that this passage is saying that those who are not saved after the rapture will have no chance of becoming saved during the tribulation as God prevents them at that point from being saved. He feels only those who have not heard the Gospel message can be saved during the tribulation by the preaching of the 144k and two witnesses. I tend to disagree, as I believe everyone will have heard the Gospel taught before the tribulation, meaning according to my fathers view of the above passage, nobody could be saved. Any thoughts?

webdog

I don't believe scripture teaches a pre-trib rapture, therefore, the question is mute.

peace to you

Scripture clearly teaches a pre-trib rapture. To answer your question and the position taken by your father, I googled a link you can use for your own study:

http://tinyurl.com/dlozn

Have Fun!

Originally posted by genesis12:
Scripture clearly teaches a pre-trib rapture.

Click to expand...

Yep, Scripture clearly teaches a lot of end time positions...just depends on your view point.

My viewpoint doesn't count. All scripture is spiritually discerned, and one passage cannot be used against another. Therefore, I think your observation, PastorSBC, goes nowhere.

There has always been tribulation for the people of God, the Church. People will be saved during any tribulation the same way they are always saved, by the Sovereign Grace of God.

As for the pretrib rapture it is not Scripture but a figment of the vivid imagination of John Darby, popularized in this country by the erroneous Scofield reference bible.

Originally posted by PastorSBC1303:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by genesis12:
Scripture clearly teaches a pre-trib rapture.

Click to expand...

Yep, Scripture clearly teaches a lot of end time positions...just depends on your view point.

</font>[/QUOTE]Since the Holy Spirit is the One Who interprets the Scriptures, how come we have so many "view points"?
I agree with genesis12 that Scripture clearly teaches a pre-trib rapture of the church--not because I think genesis12 is correct, but because the Scriptures do teach it. God does not contradict Himself.

Originally posted by Linda64:
Since the Holy Spirit is the One Who interprets the Scriptures, how come we have so many "view points"?I agree with genesis12 that Scripture clearly teaches a pre-trib rapture of the church--not because I think genesis12 is correct, but because the Scriptures do teach it. God does not contradict Himself.

Click to expand...

I used to say the exact same thing. Until a funny thing happened. I decided to actually study God's Word to see what it actually said instead of just what I had always been told by Sunday School teachers and pastors.

I would have argued until I was blue in the face for a pretrib rapture. Yet in reality I had no clue what Scripture really taught. So I just parroted what I had always been told.

Then I opened up God's Word and decided to study for myself.

Frankly, I do not really care if you or anyone else agree or not. You are welcome to your own views. But I would challenge you to actually dig into God's Word for yourself and not just accept what you have always been told.

Originally posted by genesis12:
Therefore, I think your observation, PastorSBC, goes nowhere.

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Thats fine. I am not interested in my viewpoint going anywhere.

I am interested in what God's Word teaches.

So you show me a pretrib rapture taking place in Scripture and I will go right along with you.

Originally posted by PastorSBC1303:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by genesis12:
Therefore, I think your observation, PastorSBC, goes nowhere.

Click to expand...

Thats fine. I am not interested in my viewpoint going anywhere.

I am interested in what God's Word teaches.

So you show me a pretrib rapture taking place in Scripture and I will go right along with you. </font>[/QUOTE]I will give that a hearty amen!

I had similar experiences as well. Always was taught pretrib was the only way. When I dug into it on my own, I also saw its just not there. I can see where the erroneous teachings come from, though.
One thing is for sure, He will wrap it all up in His own time and own way. And He WILL wrap it up.

I guess I'll never understand people.

Brother Webdog starts a topic where he wants to
assume a pre-trib rapture and talk about if there will
be salvation in such a case, during the Tribulation period
That will follow.
People want to talk off topic
about if there is a pre-trib rapture or not.

Over in this thread:
Do you believe in the rapture?

The topic is "is there a pre-trib rapture or not"
and nobody much posts there.

So I'm going to do something about it.
Your off-topic post here is going to be discussed there.
Feel free to come over and defend your position where
your position is part of the topic. (Note to fence sitters,
'no position' is a position)

This subject was discussed back in March 2005 in a topic called:
"Saved During the Great Tribulation"
Look that up in Google, the discussion still resides in Google space
(but not BB space). Here is the start of the conversation:

-------------------
Saved During The Great Tribulation
OldRegular
2,000 Posts Club
Member # 10105
posted March 14, 2005 11:16 PM
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How are people saved during the so-called Great Tribulation. The Church is gone, the Holy Spirit is gone, there are none left on earth who are believers?
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Posts: 2114 | From: South Carolina | Registered: Nov 2004


Ed Edwards
Avatar Image
Member # 4203
posted March 14, 2005 11:40 PM
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Rom 10:9 (KJV1611):
That if thou shalt confesse with thy mouth the Lord Iesus,
and shalt beleeue in thine heart,
that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saued.

Gentiles that are saved will have their
heads cut off. The early church fathers called
this 'stillborn Christians'. That is, their
confession of Jesus as Lord resulted in
their death.

Jews that see Jesus as their Messiah when
the Antichrist commits the abomination of
desolation will be saved when they believe
and confess Jesus as their Messiah/Lord.
God will supernaturally protect them through
the Great Tribulation Period.
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Posts: 7413 | From: central Oklahoma | Registered: Aug 2002
-------------------

I agree with Ed. The question is, Will there be people saved during a tribulation that follows a pre-trib rapture?

All other viewpoints are moot. If you are not pre-trib, then don't post here. Start your own thread, or post in an appropriate thread.

Thank you,
Phillip

The only saved people during the trib will be the people that never had a chance to hear the saving grace of Jesus Christ. In 2 Thes. 2:10-12 states that God will make the people who had a chance believe a lie. The people who heard the gospel had their chance and they rejected that opportunity. The ones who get saved during the trib will probably, and most likely, be martyred. Yes, those who are saved will be raptured out before the trib. It says this in Rev. 7:13-14, "And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
God will not judge those who have not heard...
John 12:47, "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world."
The trib is God's judgement on those who rejected His son. What else could it possibly be?

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
Saved During The Great Tribulation
OldRegular
2,000 Posts Club
Member # 10105
posted March 14, 2005 11:16 PM
-------------------
How are people saved during the so-called Great Tribulation. The Church is gone, the Holy Spirit is gone, there are none left on earth who are believers?
-------------------
Posts: 2114 | From: South Carolina | Registered: Nov 2004

Click to expand...

Ed

You misused that quotation. You know full well that I don't believe in anything called the 7 year great tribulation but in a general resurrection and judgment. Shame on you!

OldRegular: //You misused that quotation. You know full well that I don't
believe in anything called the 7 year great tribulation
but in a general resurrection and judgment. Shame on you! //

My bad
I didn't realise your topic starter post question would
reveal your heartfelt beliefs.

Posts that are off-topic here will be addressed
at a place they are on-topic namely:

Do you believe in the rapture? (Page 7)

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
OldRegular: //You misused that quotation. You know full well that I don't
believe in anything called the 7 year great tribulation
but in a general resurrection and judgment. Shame on you! //

My bad
I didn't realise your topic starter post question would
reveal your heartfelt beliefs.

Posts that are off-topic here will be addressed
at a place they are on-topic namely:

Do you believe in the rapture? (Page 7)

Click to expand...

Are you a moderator ED?

The simple truth is that all scripture is spiritually discerned. That is, God gives us the ability to rightly divide scripture (2 Tim 2:15,23). If, then, you and I are spiritual Christians, having been born again (Jn 3:1-7), declared righteous (Rom 8:30), and having access to "the mind" (the spiritual insight and understanding) of Christ (1 Cor 2:14-16), with the Holy Spirit "coming alongside" (John 16:13-14), then we cannot possibly disagree as to the interpretation of scripture. IF we disagree then it is obvious that one of us, both of us, or several of us, is not operating with spiritual discernment. Perhaps one or both or several of us is out of fellowship with God through Jesus Christ in the power of the Holy Spirit. That would account for us being in disagreement --- engaged in debate. Get it? Think about it! Bottom line: prayer, Bible study, by one who is born again, in fellowship with God and those of like faith.

I couldn't say AMEN louder nor any more heartily to genesis12's above comments.

So...pre-trib anyone? Oh...and by the way...there IS a mid-trib rapture ALSO.

As to the op? Folks will be saved during the Trib the same a s they have been getting saved for centuries....i.e.----------------


Believing the promises of God.