Featured IT IS FINISHED!

But your answer as per post # 11 is not biblical.

"He fully executed the Divine Purpose, did everything required that saved all for whom He died, all them which had been given Him by the Father before the foundation, not one of them shall be lost."

The question is not if I understand your post # 11
"He fully executed the Divine Purpose, did everything required that saved all for whom He died, all them which had been given Him by the Father before the foundation, not one of them shall be lost."

The question is do you understand what the bible says?

Joh_3:17 ... but that the world through Him might be saved.

1Jn_2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

1Ti_4:10 ...we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men,

1Ti_2:6 ...who gave Himself a ransom for all, {cf 1Ti_2:3-4}

Rom_5:6 ... Christ died for the ungodly.

Rom_5:8 ... while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

1Pe_3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust,

2Co_5:19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself {cf 2Co_5:21}

Col_2:12 buried with Him in baptism, ...raised with Him through faith...

So if we were to hold to your view that Christ "saved all for whom He died" then we would have to believe in universalism. Do you believe in universalism BF? I hope not.

Since what the bible says contradicts what you are saying then it is time for you to change what you are saying.

 

While it is true Christ gave His soul for His sheep, Scripture doesn't teach as you misunderstand it.

John 17:24, ". . . Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. . . ."

 

Did, "It is finished," come before or after, "My God My God why have Thou forsaken me,"?

What about the following, how does it relate to the two sayings above and did it precede the above in order?

for him who did not know sin, in our behalf He did make sin, From 2 Cor 5:21 YLT

OP What was finished?

 

@percho I trust that this will give you some clarity in this matter.

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is, "MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?"

Mat 27:48 Immediately one of them ran and took a sponge, filled it with sour wine and put it on a reed, and offered it to Him to drink.

Mat 27:50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.

Joh 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

By looking at Matthew and John’s accounts we can see the order.

1] He cried out "MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?"
2 sour wine given then, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

In regard to 2Co 5:21. Some things to consider. What is the exact idea which the apostle intended to convey? Could it be of Christ;

1] That he was literally sin in the abstract, or sin as such.

2] Can it mean that he was a sinner,

3] Can it mean that he was, in any proper sense of the word, guilty,...If he was, in any proper sense, guilty, then he deserved to die, and his death could have no more merit than that of any other guilty being.

All such views as go to make the Holy Redeemer a sinner, or guilty, or deserving of the sufferings which he endured, border on blasphemy, and are abhorrent to the whole strain of the Scriptures. Barnes

OP What was finished?

Joh 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
Joh 17:4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do

The finished work of Christ Jesus was to provide the means of salvation for all those that would freely trust in Him for salvation.

 

My thoughts.

Regardless of what, "in our behalf He did make sin," means, I believe it took place on the cross and is how Jesus considered himself at about the ninth hour and said, "MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?"

Regardless of whether Jesus felt to, be sin, or the, sin offering, It appears to me, it was the moment of the fulfillment of - from Rom 8:3 God, His own Son having sent in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, did condemn the sin in the flesh,

And sin when, it is finished, brought forth death, to the flesh of Jesus Christ, ----- James 1:15 1 Peter 3:18

Thus, It is finished

Father unto your hands I commit the spirit of me.

Is that what took place or not?

If yes, then what was finished?

Does the above result in the following being true?
who was delivered up because of our offences, and was raised up because of our being declared righteous. Rom 4:25 YLT


Edit to add

See also Heb 10

 

Whether you believe its biblical or not means nothing, thats my answer.

 

Yes He died only for His Sheep, and they are saved because of it.

 

It is not a matter of whether I think it is biblical. It is a matter of if it is biblical and your version is not, according to scripture. So for you to just stick with that view says that you do not want to follow scripture.

So the question then becomes, why not?

What do you hold higher than scripture in this matter?

 

Whatever, its the Truth

 

Not according to scripture.

 

How one views the death of Christ will have an impact on how they view salvation. If as was shown in a prior post if Christ became sin then His death accomplished nothing as far as redemption is concerned. He would have been just another man that died on the cross for his crimes.

On the other hand Christ was indeed the sinless lamb of God, the sin offering to appease God His death accomplished the redemption of mankind. God was reconciled to mankind and could via His grace make those that freely trusted in His risen son sons of the living God.


Joh 10:17 "For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again.
Joh 10:18 "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again.


Christ’s death as God’s sacrificial Lamb (John 1:29) was to pay the redemptive price for the sins of all people (Romans 3:24) so that God might be free to forgive those who respond by faith to that provision. Christ’s resurrection was the proof (or demonstration and vindication) of God’s acceptance of Jesus’ sacrifice (Romans _1:4). Thus because He lives, God can credit His provided righteousness to the account of every person who responds by faith to that offer. BKC

 

May I?

Quote someone?

How about Gill for a change?

Anyway, he does a typically balanced and good work on "it is finished", to answer your OP pretty good, Br. Glen.

Gill emphasizes the "it is as good as done, or finished", it all being absolutely certain and sure to be entirely completed and he isn't bound up strictly by Jesus' words to imagine something wasn't as good as finished, coming from Him.

John 19:30 - Bible Verse Meaning and Commentary

"he said, it is finished;"

"that is, the whole will of God;
as that he should be incarnate,
be exposed to shame and reproach,
and suffer much,
and die;

"the whole work his Father gave him to do, (was finished)
which was to preach the Gospel,
work miracles,
and obtain eternal salvation for his people,
all which were now done, or as good as done;

"the whole righteousness of the law was fulfilled,
an holy nature assumed,
perfect obedience yielded to it,
and the penalty of death endured;

"hence a perfect righteousness was finished agreeably to the law, which was magnified and made honourable by it, and redemption from its curse and condemnation secured;

"sin was made an end of,
full atonement and satisfaction for it were given;

"complete pardon procured,
peace made,
and redemption from all iniquity obtained;

"all enemies were conquered;
all types, promises, and prophecies were fulfilled,
and his own course of life ended:

"the reason of his saying "it is finished" was, because all this was near being done, just upon finishing, and was as good as done; and was sure and certain, and so complete, that nothing need, or could be added to it; and it was done entirely without the help of man, and cannot be undone;

"all which since has more clearly appeared by
Christ's resurrection from the dead,
his entrance into heaven,
his session at God's right hand,
the declaration of the Gospel,
and the application of salvation to particular persons:"

 

The Greeks used to boast that their language was capable of giving much in little; a whole ocean of meaning in a few drops of language. In the Greek, 'It is finished' is reduced to a single word - Τετελεσται (tetelestai)- ‘It is finished.’ I want to look at this single word and try to measure some of the depths of it.

Tetelestai comes from the verb, teleo which means ‘to finish.’ Words like ‘telephone’ (‘the voice at the end’) and ‘television’ come from it. Tetelestai is the Perfect Tense of teleo. It suggests something that has been brought to a conclusion. There is no more to do.

The word teleo, translated ‘finished’ in John 19:30, appears quite a few times in the New Testament and has some very interesting meanings :-

Matt 11:1, A.V. ‘…..When Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples…..’ So what was made an end of at the cross? Our sins, the guilt of them and their very memory in the mind of God (Jeremiah 31:34 etc.).

Matt 17:24. “Does your Teacher not pay the temple tax?” What was paid? The price of our redemption. ‘Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us’ (Gal 3:13).

Luke 2:39. ‘So when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord…..’ What was performed? All the righteous requirements of the law (Isaiah 42:21; Matthew 5:17).

Luke 18:31. ‘…..And all the things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of Man will be accomplished.’
What was accomplished? All the work that the Father had given Christ to do (John 17:4).

On the Cross we can see the end of all our sins. ‘And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all’ (Isaiah 53:6). If my iniquities have been laid upon Christ they are no longer on me. To be sure, there is still sin in me for I still carry the relic of my old Adamic nature and In will do until I die and shed this old body forever, but there is no more sin on me. I am no longer under condemnation. Why not? Because someone else has borne my punishment; someone else has taken the blame. ‘[He] Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree’ (1Peter 2:24). It is a principle of the law that you can only be punished once for the same offence. If someone else has taken my punishment, I am no longer under its penalty. If someone has taken on my debt I am no longer liable to pay it.

Payment God will not twice demand;
Once at my bleeding Surety's hand,
And then again from me. [Augustus Toplady]

On the Day of Atonement, the High Priest placed his hands upon a live goat, symbolically transferring to it all the sins of the Israelites, before releasing it into the desert. This looked forward to the day when God the Father would lay all our sins upon the Lord Jesus Christ and He would take them away. But what of future sins? Will I still incur the guilt of these? By no means! This is the wonder of the atonement- not only are our sins laid upon Christ, but His perfect obedience and righteousness are credited to us who believe. ‘For He has made Him who know no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him’ (2Cor 5:21. Cf. also Romans 5:19; 1Corinthians 1:30).

An anonymous writer of the early Christian era expresses the wonder of the atonement so well.

‘He Himself took upon Him the burden of our sins, Himself gave His own Son as a ransom for us…….For what could cover our sins but His righteousness? In whom was it possible for us, lawless and impious as we were, to be justified, save only in the Son of God? Oh, sweet exchange and unsearchable act of creation…..that the lawlessness of many should be hidden in the One righteous, and the righteousness of one should justify many who were lawless!’ (Epistle to Diognetus, IX).

So when God, as Judge, looks upon believers, He sees no sin in His people, but only the perfect righteousness of Christ. As Father, of course, He still sees our failings and lovingly corrects them (Hebrews 12:5-11), but as Judge, He sees none. ‘Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more’ (Hebrews 10:17). Christ has taken them away forever. We are those who often can't remember what we had for breakfast the day before yesterday. How amazing that God, who knows everything perfectly should, out of love for us, delete, as it were, our sins from the memory bank of heaven! ‘For as the heavens are high above the earth, so great is His mercy toward those who fear Him; as far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed our transgressions from us’ (Psalm 103:11-12). Tetelestai. It is finished. It is the end of all our sins.

[Partly abridged from The Seven sayings of the Saviour from the Cross by A.W. Pink]

 

A very good post but has nothing to do with post #1

Simple question or is it?... What was finished?... Brother Glen

Here is, "What is finished, IMHO the fulfillment of the following
All of us, like sheep, have strayed away.
We have left God’s paths to follow our own.
Yet the LORD laid on him
the sins of us all.

 

That was a response to your post.

 

Yes according to scripture, Christ said all is finished that accomplished the saving of all for whom He died. Do you deny it ?

 

Yes Gill was correct, Christ accomplished and finished all needful for the full saving of the elect, His Church, even the application of salvation.

 

I think that perhaps you have missed an important point.
Matthew 27:45. 'Now from the sixth hour until the ninth hour there was darkness over all the land.' As if to hide the shame of the God-Man made sin. So at the ninth hour, our Lord cries out, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?" And at that moment, the sun reappears; His cry has been heard, propitiation has been made in full, and His sufferings are about to end. Two things remain to be accomplished: one is His death, which followed almost immediately; the other is the fulfillment of Psalms 69:21. Therefore Jesus said, "I thirst." He also needed to wet His dry throat, so that He could give His great cry: "It is finished!" And it was.

It means simply, that 'The LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all' (Isaiah 53:6; cf. also v.12) and that 'He Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree' (1 Peter 2:24). In the light of Isaiah 53:5, this implies not just the bearing of our guilt and shame but the bearing of our punishment. It certainly does not mean that our Lord was a sinner; He was never that! It is through the union of the sinner with Christ that He can justly be judged for the sins of others, and we can 'become the righteousness of God in Him.' Note that in 1 Peter 2:23, Peter informs us that God 'judges righteously' immediately before telling us that Christ bore our sins.
These are quite deep waters, and I am hoping to start a thread specifically on this subject, but time seems to be against me.

All such views as go to make the Holy Redeemer a sinner, or guilty, or deserving of the sufferings which he endured, border on blasphemy, and are abhorrent to the whole strain of the Scriptures. Barnes

OP What was finished?

Joh 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
Joh 17:4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do

The finished work of Christ Jesus was to provide the means of salvation for all those that would freely trust in Him for salvation.[/QUOTE]

 

If one were to hold to your stated view, "Christ said all is finished that accomplished the saving of all for whom He died" then He saved everyone, no one is lost. That would make you a universalist, are you saying that you are?

According to scripture, who did Christ die for?

Rom 5:6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1Ti 2:6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

BF no one was saved by His death. Christ was the appeasing sacrifice that reconciled the world to God. {1John 2:2} God sent His son into the world as a savior, {John 3:17} because the desire of His heart was that all should be saved. {1Timothy 2:3-4}

The world was reconciled to God through His death. {Romans 5:10 a} But only those that freely trust in the risen Christ will be saved. {Romans 5:10 b}

Christ died so that all could be saved {John 3:17} We see the relationship between God and man clearly in the following verse from Paul {2Corinthians 5:18-21} God, through Christ, reconciled the world to Himself thus making it possible for man to be reconciled to God. Man must submit to God's terms of mercy, faith in His risen son. God has removed all the obstacles to reconciliation which existed on his part. Now it remains that man should lay aside his hostility, abandon his sins, embrace the terms of mercy, and become in fact reconciled to God.

BF you keep saying that it was His death that saves while the bible says it is His life. You want to trust in a dead man and I trust in the risen Christ.

 

[/QUOTE]

@Martin Marprelate you say "I think that perhaps you have missed an important point." then you agree with what I had said. What you added was not relevant to the question made by @percho that I was responding to.

You made some comments in your post that I do not see supported in the text of the bible but as you said you want to to start a thread on this topic so I look forward to that.