Featured Irenaeus

Thanks for the post. I have never read or heard anyone propose that concept above relative to the two virgins yet it has come to my mind and I have posted kind of the like thought here before.

Redemption through a virgin birth.

Gal 4:4 YLT and when the fulness of time did come, God sent forth His Son, come of a woman, [A virgin who out of Spirit conceived] come under law, ['Lo, the virgin shall conceive, and she [the virgin], How do we know. See V 24,25 And Joseph, having risen from the sleep, did as the messenger of the Lord directed him, and received his wife, and did not know her till she brought forth her son -- the first-born, and he called his name Jesus.] shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel,' which is, being interpreted 'With us he is God.'
Cont Gal 4:5 that those under law [ thou shalt not eat of it ] he may redeem, that the adoption of sons we may receive;

Consider to redeem. Redeem from what? Death brought fourth through sin? Now consider Eve a virgin taken from man as a helper for him. Him who had been given a law, command, "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: Was the first woman, the first virgin, espoused to the man to be his helper by bring forth the Son of God?

Could she have been taken from the man a virgin who was with child? I ask because of the way Gen 4:1 YLT And the man knew Eve his wife, and she conceiveth and beareth Cain, and saith, 'I have gotten a man by Jehovah;'

And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. Gen 2:25

Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness.
From Gen 3:6 she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat;
and the eyes of them both are opened, and they know that they are naked,
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Did Adam lust for someone who was not yet his?

I will be the first to say there is a lot of conjecture above but like Irenaeus methinks birth may have been the result of the sin that brought forth the need for redemption.


Just some thoughts for more thoughts.

 

Irenaeus. Can we trust the testimony of a man that says Jesus taught for 15 years and was fifty years old when he died?

 

Never heard that one beforet if true it does give one pause. But I read the next post by T Cassidy he shows that what you are saying here is in error.

{What Irenaeus actually said was:

"For how could He have had disciples, if He did not teach? And how could He have taught, unless He had reached the age of a Master? For when He came to be baptized, He had not yet completed His thirtieth year, but was beginning to be about thirty years of age (for thus Luke, who has mentioned His years, has expressed it: Now Jesus was, as it were, beginning to be thirty years old, when He came to receive baptism); and, [according to these men,] He preached only one year reckoning from His baptism. On completing His thirtieth year He suffered, being in fact still a young man, and who had by no means attained to advanced age. Now, that the first stage of early life embraces thirty years, and that this extends onwards to the fortieth year, every one will admit; but from the fortieth and fiftieth year a man begins to decline towards old age, which our Lord possessed while He still fulfilled the office of a Teacher, even as the Gospel and all the elders testify; those who were conversant in Asia with John, the disciple of the Lord, [affirming] that John conveyed to them that information. And he remained among them up to the times of Trajan. Some of them, moreover, saw not only John, but the other apostles also, and heard the very same account from them, and bear testimony as to the [validity of] the statement. Whom then should we rather believe? Whether such men as these, or Ptolemaeus, who never saw the apostles, and who never even in his dreams attained to the slightest trace of an apostle?"
What he said was a man was young until 30, mature until 40, and old at 50. As the Sanhedrin required a man to be at least 50 years of age to be considered a Master (teacher), all Irenaeus was saying was that Christ fulfilled that requirement, not by his age, but due to his extraordinary teaching ability.

Irenaeus' point is that Jesus' humanity identifies with human beings of every age,} T Cassidy

A study of the "Revelation" - date & significance, then & now

 

And you know what happens when you assume

 

Here is a snippet from the OP:

But Eve was disobedient; for she did not obey when as yet she was a virgin. ​

Does scripture say Eve was a virgin? Nope
Does scripture say Eve was "disobedient?" Nope

Scripture tells us Adam "knew" Eve and she conceived Cain, Genesis 4:1. But scripture does not say they had not "become one flesh" before that recorded event.

Did sin enter the world (humanity) be the sin of one woman? Nope. Did sin enter the world by the sin of both Adam and Eve? Nope. Sin entered the world by the disobedience of Adam alone, one man. Eve was deceived.

 

After the fall.

 

After the fall, the snow falls. Please say something rather than suggest.

Scripture does not say they did not become "one flesh" before the fall.

 

That is because Eve was made from Adam. Genesis 2:22-23.

 

So why are there so many darn Catholics and so many of their parishes operating today? For example there is one Baptist church in a radius of 25 miles from my home (shuttered

) but 8-9 RC’s actively operating.HELP!!! I’m surrounded by Catholics!

 

Would Catholic Charities be financing the Polish?

 

Recapitulation is more of a hermeneutic. Applied to the atonement it becomes a type of theory of how the mechanism works, and in that regard I would say it is essential, but not complete.

As a hermeneutic, recapitulation is all over the Bible and the Bible is impossible to understand without it. The Biblical writers are constantly telling the same stories (recapitulating the same stories) over and over again with slight modifications or inversions to make their point. The logic of recapitulation is "just as, so also."

For example, when Exodus says that Moses was put in an "ark" and put into the waters of the Nile, clearly the writer wants us to think of Moses as the new Noah. Just as Noah, so also Moses. Then when Joshua parts the Jordan and the Israelites pass through, clearly the writer wants us to think of Joshua as the new Moses. This type of stuff is all over the place in the Bible. Literally thousands of connections like this. Just as Moses, so also Joshua.

Again regarding Exodus, there are 7 women in the first two chapters who save the world. They are all women who "undo" the failings of Eve, and who prepare the salvation story of the Exodus through the Red Sea. Mary is yet another recapitulation of women such as these. Irenaeus is correct to say that Mary succeeds where Eve fails, and to draw all the appropriate connections. Where he oversteps is calling her an "intercessor" or advocate.

 

Holy Cow! Nobody gives a fig conserning tradition in New Jersey any more LOL. Otherwise we would have an outgrowth of Dutch Reformed Churches and Quaker meeting houses populating the area.

No the RC church is terribly corrupt with heroin and Fentonol (sp?) distribution (mostly to children) and CHILD PROSTITUTION funding the existence of these parishes. It’s these activities that allow them to exist even though they are facing empty pews and almost no middle class patronage. However if you flood the boarders and give them freebies they will come in droves to partake. Again, Catholic Charities facilitates in the “America For Grabs” activities.

 

Irish?!? What’s that? Irish/Italian, Irish/ Black, Irish/Indian yada, yada. I personally am in solidarity with them on St. Patty’s Day, Mostly due to the Guinness product line, but they are so diluted into modern society today that Roman Catholicism takes a back seat to other mainstream interests.

 

Their all dead or moved on to Florida. Any Irish are in Boston or in London pretending to be Brits or up in Canada. You might find some in politics, unions and police & fire departments but my Irish cousins primarily participate in drug trafficking, and murder… maybe gambling & prostitution. Money laundering is big with them also. But then, who am I to judge. And they aren’t the type that go to Mass on Sunday.