Featured Matthew 16:21-23 and Satan's Role in the Crucifixion of Jesus

I did not claim those passages to mean anything.

Satan entered Judas who handed Jesus over to the Jews who nailed him to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.

What does it mean that Satan entered Judas? I did not say. What does it mean that the Jews nailed Him to a cross and put Him to death? I believe the meaning is straight forward, but I did not insist.

I simply asked you if you believed it.

I never said you needed to prove you believed all of God's Word. I said that I believe you do not as evidenced by your unwillingness to confirm a few passages.

I never said that I will not act on this thread as a moderator. I said that I was not posting as a moderator. Those are two very different things.

 

No, that is not emphasis. Those are three accounts of the same narrative.

Biblical emphasis is repetition within the same passage or even book.

For example, Jesus emphasizes Satan role in the Jews seeking to kill Him by repeating this charge several times in the passage.

Peter emphasizes the Jews murdering Jesus by stating it twice, different ways, in one verse.

Satan entering Judas and handing Jesus over to the Jews is emphasized by stating the event and Judas' character.


BUT Jesus words to Peter is not unimportant. ALL of Scripture is important.

Jesus explains His words to Peter. Peter had the same desire as Jesus (that the cup pass) but Peter had his mind set on the interest of man rather than God.

This does not negate that Jesus said "Get behind me Satan".

That statement, however, does not negate that Satan entered Judas to hand Jesus over to the Jews who nailed Him to the Cross and put Him to death.

Those verses go together. It speaks to the nature of Satan.


Do you believe that Satan entered Judas to hand Jesus over to the Jews who nailed Him to the Cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death?

 

We also have to deal honestly with Peter's words, especially if we are saying it is what Satan wanted.

Peter did not simply say Jesus shouldn't die. There was more to this.

Matthew 16:21–22 From that time Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised up on the third day. Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “God forbid it, Lord! This shall never happen to You.”

Going with @Scripture More Accurately , what exactly did Satan disapprove of in the passage:

1. That Jesus go to Jerusalem
2. That Jesus suffer at the hands of the Jewish authorities
3. That Jesus be killed
4. That Jesus be raised up on the third day

The OP picks out one of those things but ignores the main focus, that Jesus would be raised up on the third day.

Satan knows Scripture. Satan (and the demons) actually believe. The demons asked Jesus what He had to do with them as their time had not come. Satan knows that his time is short. What does the Bible say about Satan? That he is pouring out his fierce wrath because he knows his time is short.

The OP is not dealing with Satan in a biblical manner.

 

Perhaps. I am not concerned. The fact remains that the gospel accounts are not repetitive fir emphasis but different accounts of the same Gospel.

I don't care if you take screen shots. That will not prevent me from moderating the thread. I still don't post as a moderator. I post as a member.

As a moderator I have repeatedly warned that playing the "you are a moderator" card will result in warnings or banning. I stand by that statement. Stop being childish.

 

Yes, that is what I said. Satan knew that Christ dying and being raised on the third day would be his defeat.

And it was a stumbling block to Christ as well.

I never rejected that passage.

What I said was that Satan entered Judas and handed Him over to the Jews who nailed Him to the Cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.


You seem to see some contradiction in those passages. What exactly is it that makes you reject, or at least not be able to confirm, those passages?

 

So the focus of your argument is that Satan did not want Jesus to be raised up on the third day (that the serpent would strike the heel but Satan didn't want the Son to crush its head).

I agree.

So what? It was never about what the Devil wanted.

I agree with you about Peter's words.

BUT do you believe that Satan entered Judas and handed Him over to the Jews who nailed Him to the Cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death??

All I am trying to do is establish we agree on Scripture so we can see what is said in regards to the OP.

 

I know this because the majority of orthodox Christianity holds the position that the Cross was the culmination of the power of darkness, of this world, of Satan, descending on Christ with the Resurrection Christ's victory over Satan, sin and death.

I know this because I took the time to read the demographics of our faith before posting.

The focus of Peter's sermon was NOT that the killing of Jesus was God's predetermined plan but that those men could be forgiven. It was an evangelistic message.

 

No, I don't want the discussion to be about Satan entering Judas to hand Jesus over to the Jews who would nail Him to a cross and put Him to death.

I want the discussion to include all passages possible about Satan's role in the crucifixion because that is important to the discussion about Satan's role in the crucifixion. We need to allow Scripture to interpret Scripture.

 

But we ALL agree that the Jews nailing Jesus to a cross and putting Him to death was the predetermined plan of God.

Jesus said that this would occur by the people He said were a "synagogue of Satan" and children of their father the Devil".

ALL Scripture is important. Jesus did not suffer and die once under the Jewish authorities (in the OP passage Jesus said "scribes and pharisees") and another time by the predetermined plan of God.

He died ONCE for all. Satan entering Judas and handing Him over to the Jews who nailed Him to a cross and put Him to death, Jesus going to Jerusalem to suffer at the hands of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised up on the third day was always God's predetermined plan.

One does not negate the other.

 

Now don't be lazy .

Protestant Christianity makes up 36.7% of orthodox Christianity. Outside of the Protestant church the idea that Christ did not suffer and die under the powers of evil does not exist.

Of the Protestant denominations about 67% hold that Jesus suffered and died unjustly under the power of evil or Satan.

That leaves 12.2% of Christians. Out of these about 2% hold that Christ died under the power of Satan.

Given the circles some run in and threads on this board it is an interesting fact that Reformed Baptists make up less than .3% of Christians. And they have declined sharply since 2018. The most dominant Baptist churches are charismatic (I didn't realize that until looking up stats.....they make up 58% across several evangelistic Baptist denominations).