Every Object Short of Jesus is Vanity

KenH said:

Psalms 50:10-12 For every beast of the forest is mine,
And the cattle upon a thousand hills.
I know all the fowls of the mountains:
And the wild beasts of the field are mine.
If I were hungry, I would not tell thee:
For the world is mine, and the fulness thereof.

All of His elect to be saved is what God desires, wills, and will fully accomplish.

John 10:27-30 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

John 6:37-39 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

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All these passages cited above demonstrate KenH's view is bogus.

1Timothy 2:3 - 4
This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Van said:

All these passages cited above demonstrate KenH's view is bogus.

1Timothy 2:3 - 4
This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

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Obviously, the "all people" is all of God's elect, those He chose before the foundation of the world and gave to His Son, Christ Jesus, to be their Surety and to work out a perfect righteousness on their behalf, as all of their sins were imputed to Him and His perfect righteousness was imputed to them.

Clearly, the "all people" could not be all people ever born, unless every person ever born is saved. Now, I am willing to hear an explanation as to how every person ever born will be saved, as I am well aware that there are those who believe in Christian Universalism.

However, I don't think that Christian Universalism is what Van, and most other Conditionalists, mean. Therefore, to hold that God wants every person ever born to be saved means that such people consider God unable to always obtain His will or desire. Such people are saying that God is only partially sovereign, which means their idea of God is basically no different than those gods of Greek mythology or a Marvel movie character nowadays.

People such as Van and other Conditionalists would do well to heed the words of Scott Price, pastor of Gospel of Grace Ministries in Okeana, Ohio:

"The Gospel of God's free and Sovereign Grace in Christ is not just one choice of many in a "Christian buffet".

It is the ONLY gospel there is."

KenH said:

Obviously, the "all people" is all of God's elect, those He chose before the foundation of the world and gave to His Son, Christ Jesus, to be their Surety and to work out a perfect righteousness on their behalf, as all of their sins were imputed to Him and His perfect righteousness was imputed to them.

Clearly, the "all people" could not be all people ever born, unless every person ever born is saved. Now, I am willing to hear an explanation as to how every person ever born will be saved, as I am well aware that there are those who believe in Christian Universalism.

However, I don't think that Christian Universalism is what Van, and most other Conditionalists, mean. Therefore, to hold that God wants every person ever born to be saved means that such people consider God unable to always obtain His will or desire. Such people are saying that God is only partially sovereign, which means their idea of God is basically no different than those gods of Greek mythology or a Marvel movie character nowadays.

People such as Van and other Conditionalists would do well to heed the words of Scott Price, pastor of Gospel of Grace Ministries in Okeana, Ohio:

"The Gospel of God's free and Sovereign Grace in Christ is not just one choice of many in a "Christian buffet".

It is the ONLY gospel there is."

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Obviously all people refers to all people, those to be saved and those who were or will be never saved. That is why Christ died for all people and not just for some people.

If I had a nickle for every time a Calvinist said or implied I might be a Universalist, I could go fishing.

As we were all chosen through faith in the truth, and no one was chosen before they were "not a people" the claim individuals were chosen before creation is just another unbiblical fiction.

Note the false claim if Christ dies for all people, that means all people are saved. They pile one false claim on another creating an valence of fiction. Christ's death provides the means of salvation for everyone, but does not compel the salvation of everyone, 1 John 2:2.

Then yet another fiction, if God desires everyone to come to the knowledge of Christ, by means of their autonomous choice, then God is not attempting to compel their salvation has therefore has not been thwarted. On and on folks, on and on.

The Calvinist "gospel" is not the biblical gospel, and the biblical gospel is indeed the only one there is!

Van said:

folks

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Van said:

Folks

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Van said:

Folks

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Lol, Van and his imaginary captivated audience...

Van said:

Christ's death provides the means of salvation for everyone

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Folks such as Van, and other Conditionalists, don't believe Christ Jesus when He said, "It is finished." In their minds, they add to His statement. They hear, "My part is finished, now it is up to you to do your part, and to finish the job that I started."

I fully realize that if salvation is not by the free and sovereign grace of God, that I am doomed. There is no amount of scrambling around on my part, trying to find something that I can "do" to achieve the perfect righteousness required to stand before a perfectly holy, perfectly righteous God, that would ever be successful. I am a vile, wretched, worm in and of myself and on my own efforts I can never, ever rise above that state.

Let me put it quite bluntly, either all of my sins were imputed to Christ and He paid the penalty for them and His perfect righteousness was imputed to me and God regenerates me and grants me the gifts of faith and repentance from dead works, or I am bound for Hell. If salvation requires me "doing" something to finish what Christ Jesus started, then I am bound for Hell, as I am quite certain that this vile, wretched, worm writing this post is totally incapable of "doing" anything by some supposed "free will" to save myself.

kyredneck said:

Lol, Van and his imaginary captivated audience...

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Obviously all people refers to all people, those to be saved and those who were or will be never saved. That is why Christ died for all people and not just for some people.

If I had a nickle for every time a Calvinist said or implied I might be a Universalist, I could go fishing.

As we were all chosen through faith in the truth, and no one was chosen before they were "not a people" the claim individuals were chosen before creation is just another unbiblical fiction.

Note the false claim if Christ dies for all people, that means all people are saved. They pile one false claim on another creating an valence of fiction. Christ's death provides the means of salvation for everyone, but does not compel the salvation of everyone, 1 John 2:2.

Then yet another fiction, if God desires everyone to come to the knowledge of Christ, by means of their autonomous choice, then God is not attempting to compel their salvation has therefore has not been thwarted. On and on folks, on and on.

The Calvinist "gospel" is not the biblical gospel, and the biblical gospel is indeed the only one there is!

KenH said:

Folks such as Van, and other Conditionalists, don't believe Christ Jesus when He said, "It is finished." SNIP

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Obviously all people refers to all people, those to be saved and those who were or will be never saved. That is why Christ died for all people and not just for some people.

If I had a nickle for every time a Calvinist said or implied I might be a Universalist, I could go fishing.

As we were all chosen through faith in the truth, and no one was chosen before they were "not a people" the claim individuals were chosen before creation is just another unbiblical fiction.

Note the false claim if Christ dies for all people, that means all people are saved. They pile one false claim on another creating an valence of fiction. Christ's death provides the means of salvation for everyone, but does not compel the salvation of everyone, 1 John 2:2.

Then yet another fiction, if God desires everyone to come to the knowledge of Christ, by means of their autonomous choice, then God is not attempting to compel their salvation has therefore has not been thwarted. On and on folks, on and on.

The Calvinist "gospel" is not the biblical gospel, and the biblical gospel is indeed the only one there is!

Van said:

Obviously all people refers to all people, those to be saved and those who were or will be never saved. That is why Christ died for all people and not just for some people.

If I had a nickle for every time a Calvinist said or implied I might be a Universalist, I could go fishing.

As we were all chosen through faith in the truth, and no one was chosen before they were "not a people" the claim individuals were chosen before creation is just another unbiblical fiction.

Note the false claim if Christ dies for all people, that means all people are saved. They pile one false claim on another creating an valence of fiction. Christ's death provides the means of salvation for everyone, but does not compel the salvation of everyone, 1 John 2:2.

Then yet another fiction, if God desires everyone to come to the knowledge of Christ, by means of their autonomous choice, then God is not attempting to compel their salvation has therefore has not been thwarted. On and on folks, on and on.

The Calvinist "gospel" is not the biblical gospel, and the biblical gospel is indeed the only one there is!

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This post of yours is just as false the third time you have posted it, Van, as the first time you posted it; however, I cannot speak about your going fishing as I do not know how many nickels you need to go fishing.

KenH said:

This post of yours is just as false the third time you have posted it, Van, as the first time you posted it.

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Folks, behold yet another "taint so" post denying truth.

Obviously all people refers to all people, those to be saved and those who were or will be never saved. That is why Christ died for all people and not just for some people.

If I had a nickle for every time a Calvinist said or implied I might be a Universalist, I could go fishing.

As we were all chosen through faith in the truth, and no one was chosen before they were "not a people" the claim individuals were chosen before creation is just another unbiblical fiction.

Note the false claim if Christ dies for all people, that means all people are saved. They pile one false claim on another creating an valence of fiction. Christ's death provides the means of salvation for everyone, but does not compel the salvation of everyone, 1 John 2:2.

Then yet another fiction, if God desires everyone to come to the knowledge of Christ, by means of their autonomous choice, then God is not attempting to compel their salvation has therefore has not been thwarted. On and on folks, on and on.

The Calvinist "gospel" is not the biblical gospel, and the biblical gospel is indeed the only one there is!

I read about a fisherman who went fishing and caught 153 fish. Even so he became a fisher of men...

Van said:

Folks, behold yet another "taint so" post denying truth.

Obviously all people refers to all people, those to be saved and those who were or will be never saved. That is why Christ died for all people and not just for some people.

If I had a nickle for every time a Calvinist said or implied I might be a Universalist, I could go fishing.

As we were all chosen through faith in the truth, and no one was chosen before they were "not a people" the claim individuals were chosen before creation is just another unbiblical fiction.

Note the false claim if Christ dies for all people, that means all people are saved. They pile one false claim on another creating an valence of fiction. Christ's death provides the means of salvation for everyone, but does not compel the salvation of everyone, 1 John 2:2.

Then yet another fiction, if God desires everyone to come to the knowledge of Christ, by means of their autonomous choice, then God is not attempting to compel their salvation has therefore has not been thwarted. On and on folks, on and on.

The Calvinist "gospel" is not the biblical gospel, and the biblical gospel is indeed the only one there is!

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In baseball it is three strikes and you are out. You're up to 4 strikes now, Van. If you post it 5 more times, then in baseball, they call that a sombrero.

Van said:

I read about a fisherman who went fishing and caught 153 fish. Even so he became a fisher of men...

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I read about a God-Man who ordained so many fishes to go into a net that the net brake, and when help arrived and both ships were filled with the fishes, both ships began to sink.

Van said:

Yet another personal aside, displaying nothing of Christ.

John 5:25 NASB
“Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and even now has arrived, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.​

Does anyone suppose they understand this verse?

Is this verse talking about the resurrection to life, that will occur when Christ returns? Perhaps, but since that is more than 2000 years in the future, when John penned this gospel in the 1st century, perhaps not.

Hear seems to refer to those who heed, those who grasp the gospel and believe, those whose belief God credits as righteousness. Which of course presupposes, believers provided their witness of the gospel message to those lost, the spiritually dead.

People of Mr. Tyndale's persuasion of course deny that the "dead" will hear or respond such that they will live. Their view is that only those "quickened, made alive, regenerated" are able to hear and understand and respond affirmatively to the gospel.

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The only problem with that Van, is how do you explain two resurrections?... How do you explain two separate hours?... And two separate events?... I can!... The first is Regeneration and the second is Resurrection... Brother Glen

John 5: 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

tyndale1946 said:

The only problem with that Van, is how do you explain two resurrections?... How do you explain two separate hours?... And two separate events?... I can!... The first is Regeneration and the second is Resurrection... Brother Glen

John 5: 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

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Well, at least you have posted a biblical interpretation based on an effort to rightly divide the word of truth. Can't find fault with that!

I am sure it occurred to you that verse 25 might not be addressing the resurrections of verse 29?

I see John 5:24 to 26 addressing the spiritually dead heeding the gospel and being born anew spiritually during their physical lifetime.

Then I see John 5:27 to 29 addressing the coming judgement with those born anew spiritually but bodily in their grave, facing the resurrection to life, and all the rest facing the subsequent resurrection of judgement.