Most difficult passage in the Bible?

Do you know what other religions baptized for the dead?

thanks

Marooncat79 said:

Do you know what other religions baptized for the dead?

thanks

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Baptism for the dead is mentioned in (1 Corinthians 15:29) as proof of a physical resurrection, though the exact meaning of the phrase is an open question among scholars. The plainest reading of the Greek text suggests vicarious baptisms performed by the living on behalf of the deceased, but some scholars dispute whether Paul approved of the practice or whether the verse truly refers to an actual physical practice among early Christians.[1] Early heresiologists Epiphanius of Salamis (Panarion 28) and Chrysostom (Homilies 40) attributed the practice respectively to the Cerinthians and to the Marcionites, whom they identified as heretical "Gnostic" groups, while Ambrosiaster and Tertullian affirmed that the practice was legitimate and found among the New Testament Christians (though Tertullian later recanted his original beliefs in his later life as he became associated with Montanism).[2] The practice was forbidden by the Councils of Carthage in the last decade of the fourth century AD, and is therefore not practiced in modern mainstream Christianity, whether Nestorian, Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, or any traditional Protestant churches.

MrW said:

Baptism for the dead is mentioned in (1 Corinthians 15:29) as proof of a physical resurrection, though the exact meaning of the phrase is an open question among scholars. The plainest reading of the Greek text suggests vicarious baptisms performed by the living on behalf of the deceased, but some scholars dispute whether Paul approved of the practice or whether the verse truly refers to an actual physical practice among early Christians.[1] Early heresiologists Epiphanius of Salamis (Panarion 28) and Chrysostom (Homilies 40) attributed the practice respectively to the Cerinthians and to the Marcionites, whom they identified as heretical "Gnostic" groups, while Ambrosiaster and Tertullian affirmed that the practice was legitimate and found among the New Testament Christians (though Tertullian later recanted his original beliefs in his later life as he became associated with Montanism).[2] The practice was forbidden by the Councils of Carthage in the last decade of the fourth century AD, and is therefore not practiced in modern mainstream Christianity, whether Nestorian, Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, or any traditional Protestant churches.

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That is a hard one.

Piper said:

In your opinion, what is the most difficult to interpret or understand in the Bible?
As a young Christion, I really struggled with Hebrews 6:1-6, on whether someone could lose their salvation.

In my middle years, Romans 9 and whether it taught individual election.

In my last few years, I have wrestled with and fought with 1 John 2:2.
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

After reading John Owen, I have come to a place where I agree with his view. But I still wrestle with it.

Anyway, what is yours?

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Anytime we, as bible students, go against some traditional interpretation, we suffer the difficulty of insult and disparagement. You are lacking in character and you are unqualified to hold, let alone post such a view.

Yes, when we study a passage such as Hebrews 6:1-6 that is said to support "loss of salvation" we face the bewilderment of why others see what we do not see. It is all too easy to believe, why they are blinded by their presuppositions, rather than objectively evaluate whether we are blinded by ours.

I never had a problem with Romans 9, as I always understood that God makes both corporate and individual elections, not always conditioned on faith, but usually conditioned by some characteristic of those chosen. In my understanding every individual election for salvation is conditioned on faith, on God crediting the person's faith as righteousness.

I am not sure what John Owen made of 1 John 2:2, whether Christ became of the means of reconciliation for the whole of humanity, those to be saved and those never to be saved (2 Peter 2:1) or that Christ only became the means of reconciliation for those individuals supposedly chosen before creation. My view is consistent with 2 Peter 2:1, with Christ purchasing with His blood those heading for swift destruction.

Van said:

Anytime we, as bible students, go against some traditional interpretation, we suffer the difficulty of insult and disparagement. You are lacking in character and you are unqualified to hold, let alone post such a view.

Yes, when we study a passage such as Hebrews 6:1-6 that is said to support "loss of salvation" we face the bewilderment of why others see what we do not see. It is all too easy to believe, why they are blinded by their presuppositions, rather than objectively evaluate whether we are blinded by ours.

I never had a problem with Romans 9, as I always understood that God makes both corporate and individual elections, not always conditioned on faith, but usually conditioned by some characteristic of those chosen. In my understanding every individual election for salvation is conditioned on faith, on God crediting the person's faith as righteousness.

I am not sure what John Owen made of 1 John 2:2, whether Christ became of the means of reconciliation for the whole of humanity, those to be saved and those never to be saved (2 Peter 2:1) or that Christ only became the means of reconciliation for those individuals supposedly chosen before creation. My view is consistent with 2 Peter 2:1, with Christ purchasing with His blood those heading for swift destruction.

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I was not asking for any input on the several passages that I have struggled with. I was merely asking what other people on this Baptist Board have struggled with. As for the portion that I have highlighted in red, that is quite an accusation. You judge me to be lacking in character and unqualified to hold, let alone post such a view. What view am I lacking in character with regard to, and unqualified to post? Your sentence does not make sense. I merely said that I struggled with Hebrews 6. I did not say what I believed about it. regading Romans 9, I merely stated that I struggled with whether it taiught individual election. I said nothing regarding what view I held on it.

The only thing that I posted positively is that I agreed with Owen. Thus, I am guessing, not really sure though, that you are referring to the view of John Owen. So, tell me, Christian friend, why am I lacking in character and unqualified to hold to John Owen's view?

Piper 2 said:

I was not asking for any input on the several passages that I have struggled with. I was merely asking what other people on this Baptist Board have struggled with. As for the portion that I have highlighted in red, that is quite an accusation. You judge me to be lacking in character and unqualified to hold, let alone post such a view. What view am I lacking in character with regard to, and unqualified to post? Your sentence does not make sense. I merely said that I struggled with Hebrews 6. I did not say what I believed about it. regading Romans 9, I merely stated that I struggled with whether it taiught individual election. I said nothing regarding what view I held on it.

The only thing that I posted positively is that I agreed with Owen. Thus, I am guessing, not really sure though, that you are referring to the view of John Owen. So, tell me, Christian friend, why am I lacking in character and unqualified to hold to John Owen's view?

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LOL, I said WE suffer the difficulty of insult and disparagement, so your highlighted sentence was an illustration of how opponents address those who go against what others believe. And look at what happened to me, being charged with insult and disparagement.

Lastly I did not see where you actually stated your belief as to 1 John 2:2.

This thread is closed as per reasons I privately discussed with the OP. Please, anyone, feel free to open a similar thread.