Featured Two contradictory teachings.

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.” The term “all Israel” in the above has reference to spiritual Israel and not to natural Israel. Paul had told us in Rom. 9:6 “Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:” Not all natural Israel are of spiritual Israel and not all spiritual Israel are of natural Israel.

As pertaining to spiritual Israel, which include people of all nations, kindreds, peoples, and tongues, all are saved through the covenant work of Jesus detailed for us in Rom. 8:29, 30: “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.” Their sins have been taken away by the atoning blood of Christ shed for them upon the cross of Calvary... Brother Glen

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

 

Specifically in Ezekiel 37 and 38, the Bible speaks of the regathering of Israel (fulfilled in 1948) and then it speaks of a large force from the north attacking them. Again, this hasn’t happened yet.

 

It's Dispy, short for Dispensationalist, and it's in no way meant in a derogatory manner (which I think you already knew that). In earlier days on this board 'Dispy', 'Pret', 'Amil', 'Premil', 'Postmil', were common abbreviations used in discussions, with no hurt feelins.

 

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26 If therefore the uncircumcision keep the ordinances of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be reckoned for circumcision?
27 and shall not the uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who with the letter and circumcision art a transgressor of the law? Ro2

 

He’s not speaking to only the Jews now. He switched his audience to Jews and Gentiles. The break is back in verse 8.

 

The 'Israel of God' has been regathered into the Church.

A couple of book recommendations for you:

Israel 1948: Countdown To No Where: Don K Preston: 9780979933790: Amazon.com: Books

Amazon.com : against our better judgement

 

I have studied this issue and I have read points of view on both sides. I agree that Jews and Gentiles are gathered as one in the body of Christ’s church. However, I can’t ignore verses that speak of future prophecy concerning the nation of Israel.

One example I have used many times on here already:

Romans 11:26 - And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

For the last 2,000 years all of Israel has not been saved. Countless souls have passed away and will perish because of their unbelief. This verse can only be true if it applies to future events.

 

Baloney... again you're are thinking of natural Israel... Paul knew better and these scriptures have been misapplied more times than can remember!

Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

These are God's elect children, but they are ignorant in the knowledge of Salvation... That is why they are elect and enemies to the gospel... Hey Kentucky... Read the second one haven't read the first... Brother Glen

 

You MUST read this in its proper context. Paul is responding to an argument.

Romans 11:1 - I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Who are His People being spoken of here? Jews and Gentiles? Why would he be talking about casting away Gentiles? They are the ones being grafted in.

 

Another OT promise fulfilled in the NT:

26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27 My tabernacle also shall be with them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Ezek 37

16 And what agreement hath a temple of God with idols? for we are a temple of the living God; even as God said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 2 Cor 6

 

2 God did not cast off his people which he foreknew.....Ro 11 (see Romans 8:29-30)

He did however cast off 'that generation' of serpents that did not belong to Him, which was foretold from of old.

"...That particular generation of Christ's day was a peculiar generation in that it had been foretold of through prophecy 1400 years earlier in the Song of Moses [Dt 31:16 - Dt 32], which also is quoted from several times in the NT. Christ prophesied many times concerning that particular evil generation of his day:

33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell?
34 Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city:
35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Mt 23

Christ is still referring to that particular generation in the next chapter of Matthew, the Olivet Discourse. They're called serpents and offspring of vipers by Christ and John the Baptist and specifically singled out by Moses some 1400 years earlier where he plainly states “they are not His children”:

21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are come upon them, that this song shall testify before them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they frame this day, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.
22 So Moses wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.
29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do that which is evil in the sight of Jehovah, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. Dt 31
5 They have dealt corruptly with him, they are not his children, it is their blemish; They are a perverse and crooked generation.
20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: For they are a very perverse generation, Children in whom is no faithfulness.
21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; They have provoked me to anger with their vanities: And I will move them to jealousy with those that are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. Dt 32

8 Then certain of the scribes and Pharisees answered him, saying, Teacher, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given it but the sign of Jonah the prophet:
40 for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh shall stand up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, a greater than Jonah is here.
42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
43 But the unclean spirit, when he is gone out of the man, passeth through waterless places, seeking rest, and findeth it not.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more evil than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man becometh worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this evil generation. Mt 12

1 And the Pharisees and Sadducees came, and trying him asked him to show them a sign from heaven.
2 But he answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the heaven is red.
3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to-day: for the heaven is red and lowering. Ye know how to discern the face of the heaven; but ye cannot discern the signs of the times.
4 An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of Jonah. And he left them, and departed. Mt 16

24 for as the lightning, when it lighteneth out of the one part under the heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall the Son of man be in his day.
25 But first must he suffer many things and be rejected of this generation. Lu 17

22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21

16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the marketplaces, who call unto their fellows
17 and say, We piped unto you, and ye did not dance; we wailed, and ye did not mourn.
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a demon.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold, a gluttonous man and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners! And wisdom is justified by her works. Mt 11

40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2

And Josephus, himself a Jew and an eye witness to all that transpired during 'the wrath that came', certainly had nothing good to say of 'that generation':

“It is therefore impossible to go distinctly over every instance of these men's iniquity. I shall therefore speak my mind here at once briefly: - That neither did any other city ever suffer such miseries, nor did any age ever breed a generation more fruitful in wickedness than this was, from the beginning of the world.....” Book 5, ch 10, sec. 5

“.. I suppose, that had the Romans made any longer delay in coming against these villains, that the city would either have been swallowed up by the ground opening upon them, or been overflowed by water, or else been destroyed by such thunder as the country of Sodom (20) perished by, for it had brought forth a generation of men much more atheistical than were those that suffered such punishments; for by their madness it was that all the people came to be destroyed....” Book 5, ch. 13, sec. 6

“....and I cannot but think that it was because God had doomed this city to destruction, as a polluted city, and was resolved to purge his sanctuary by fire, that he cut off these their great defenders and well-wishers, while those that a little before had worn the sacred garments, and had presided over the public worship; and had been esteemed venerable by those that dwelt on the whole habitable earth when they came into our city, were cast out naked, and seen to be the food of dogs and wild beasts. And I cannot but imagine that virtue itself groaned at these men's case, and lamented that she was here so terribly conquered by wickedness.....” Book 4, ch. 5, sec. 2..."

 

I will consider your position further and I will get back to you.

 

If you want to save your money, here is Against our better judgement in pdf form... It says its 163 pages but its only 73, the rest are endnotes and references... Here is the link if your interested... Lets just say I have connections... Brother Glen

https://yplus.ps/wp-content/uploads...of-How-the-U.S.-Was-Used-to-Create-Israel.pdf

 

As I have studied this issue further it has reinforced my conviction that there is still a future concerning the nation of Israel.

It seems to me that the majority position here is Replacement Theology. If that is the case then I should move on to somewhere else. There are essential Christian doctrines that should never compromised, such as The Trinity, Justification by faith alone, etc. For me this is one of them.

We owe the Jews too much for our spiritual blessings and it does a great disservice to assert that the promise given to Abraham, the one that justified him, was based on a lie because the coming of the Church has made it null and void.

I appreciate that we were able to sharpen each other on various other topics. I certainly don’t think ill of anyone here but this is something that I can’t overlook.

This will likely be my final post. I wish all here well.

God bless.

 

I've never said there is no future for that nation, ever. It's their religion that's dead. Period.

If this is not being 'replaced' then I don't understand the meaning of the word:

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. Mt 21

Just as God rent the kingdom from the house of Saul and gave it to the house of David so He did with the house of apostate Judiaiasm to the house of Christ:

28 And Samuel said unto him, Jehovah hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbor of thine, that is better than thou. 1 Sam 15

...and you think placing the Jews on a pedestal is an essential doctrine? Now that's some extreme hyper-Dispensationalism.

FYI:
3 for we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and glory in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh: Phil 3

24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2

28 There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye are Christ`s, then are ye Abraham`s seed, heirs according to promise. Gal 3

19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timothy, was not yea and nay, but in him is yea.
20 For how many soever be the promises of God, in him is the yea: wherefore also through him is the Amen, unto the glory of God through us. 2 Cor 1

K. Goodbye. You seem like a nice guy, sorry to see you go.