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Featured Is the Doctrine of the Trinity wrong? (Eternal Generation/ eternally begotten)

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JonC, May 29, 2024.

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Does the Doctrine of the Trinity need to be reworked (is the traditional view wrong)?

  1. Yes. Parts are correct but the traditional understanding is unbiblical)

    1 vote(s)
    12.5%

  2. No. The Doctrine of the Trinity has defined our faith for over a mellinia and remains true today.

    7 vote(s)
    87.5%
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  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I never claimed that the terms "generated", Bible", "Trinity", "Soteriology", etc. are used in Scripture as titles for doctrines.

    This is another failed attempt at distraction.

    Eternal Generation ("generation" meaning "comes forth") simply states that the Word eternally comes forth from God (the Triune God).


    You deny this.

    I have offered many OT examples.

    Show us where the Word does not "come forth" from YHWH (from the One Triune God) while eternally being YHWH.


    Prove your point.
     
    #141 JonC, Jun 1, 2024
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yes, you do because that is what you reject.
     
    #142 JonC, Jun 1, 2024
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Nobody is talking about the term. Don't be stupid.

    We are talking about DOCTRINE.

    Eternal Generation ("generation" meaning "comes forth") simply states that the Word eternally comes forth from God (the Triune God).


    You deny this.

    I have offered many OT examples.

    Show us where the Word does not "come forth" from YHWH (from the One Triune God) while eternally being YHWH.


    Prove your point.
     
    #143 JonC, Jun 1, 2024
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  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I reject "generation" in Eternal Generation. Did you forget the issue?
     
    #144 37818, Jun 1, 2024
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Eternal Generation is the truth that the Second Person of the Trinity "comes forth" from the First Person of the Trinity.

    We see this throughout the OT. We see this in John. We see this in the Father and the Son. We see this in Christophanies.

    @37818 claims that YHWH changed and is not eternal in nature within the Trinity.

    I am merely asking for proof.

    I gave mine. He doesn't have to believe it.

    But show your work!
     
    #145 JonC, Jun 1, 2024
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    2 John 1:9, Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
     
    #146 37818, Jun 1, 2024
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Lie.
     
    #147 37818, Jun 1, 2024
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Not a lie.

    I mean you reject the eternal relationship between the Persons of the Trinity (Eternal Generation).

    That is not a lie. That is EXACTLY what you have said (you reject that the 2nd Person of the Trinity "comes forth" from the 1st Person of the Trinity prior to the Incarnation).
     
    #148 JonC, Jun 1, 2024
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    So without "literal" Biblical support you actually believe some kind of one to one equivalent is needed with "Eternal Generation" and the Person of Yahweh being immutable.
     
    #149 37818, Jun 1, 2024
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I did present literal Biblical support.

    I am asking you to support the idea that the relationship of the Word changed in regard to the Trinity when the Word became flesh.
     
    #150 JonC, Jun 1, 2024
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Yahweh is solely God.
    Malachi 3:6, . . . For I am the LORD, I change not; . . .

    To accuse me of claiming what I have never claimed or denied is not right.
     
    #151 37818, Jun 1, 2024
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Quote it. ". . . eternal generation . . . ." ?
    So are you claiming "became flesh" is no change?
     
    #152 37818, Jun 1, 2024
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    ???

    I know Yahweh is solely God.

    But I am trinitarian (I believe in the One True God - God in 3 Persons).

    You keep introducing Jehovah Witness arguments against the Trinity.

    Are you even trinitarian?
     
    #153 JonC, Jun 1, 2024
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I have.

    John 1 actually proves this. So does Henesis 1 and Revelation 13.

    The Word remained the Word even at the Incarnation.


    But what I am asking about is YOUR belief


    You say Eternal Generation is false. So explain how the Word becoming flesh changed the role of the Word within the Trinity.
     
    #154 JonC, Jun 1, 2024
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    As Christ's divinity (identity in the Godhead)?

    Yes, that is EXACTLY what I am saying and what you are denying.

    YHWH is eternal.
     
    #155 JonC, Jun 1, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2024
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    #156 JonC, Jun 1, 2024
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