Featured Matthew 15:24 Rewrite?

Out of respect for this forum, I likely will not exchange much thought with you because unless I am reading you completely wrong, you are a King James Onlyist. I cannot think of any issue more divisive to the body of Christ. So did the King James translators in their Letter preface to the KJV. BTW, they were reformed believers.

http://www.pennuto.com/bible/pdfs/kjvtrans.pdf

God Speed

 

Katie, it does not matter what you call yourself, the intention of God for including that event at that time in our Lord's ministry is aimed at teaching us some spiritual truth and something about himself and his ways. People here who have been commenting on this passage are not in agreement at all of what this passage means and why God specifically included it in the gospel of Matthew. But, their confusion is not because I am KJV only or something else. Nothing God does is without purpose but most here have not attempted to do much of anything with it except to complain about how it is written in various translations. There might be one exception. They do not know that changing the words confuses the meaning and the words of God that carries his truths on the wind are very precise. I have learned that truth over the years and one of my most effective methods of study of this glorious gift of the word of God is to do words studies. For that I must figure out what is the word of God and consider it authoritative and believe the words. I went to the website BibleGateway and chose your Bible and I could not get the same results on the word "lost, <622>" I think I could never have come to a correct understanding and I could not have tracked the thinking of God if I were studying from your Bible. These other guys here with different Bibles than you have not understood this passage any better than you with your Legacy Standard. If they have they have not revealed it yet.

You have not offered anything about the passage. Can you tell us what God wants us to learn from this incident in the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ?

 

Sorry to inform you but I did not say there were not promises "about" the gentiles. I said there were no OT promises "to" the gentiles. There is a difference. If and when gentiles are blessed it will be "through" the seed of Abraham out of whom the savior came according to the flesh. He did not save gentiles before he saved Jews.

Jn 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

You have not given this any thought. You did not even read the context or you would have seen it, the context, made my point. The passages are a prophecy concerning the coming of Jesus Christ about 700 years before he came. Read the context. This is about "the people" first. The people are always a reference to Israel.

Isa 42:Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

The servant is Jesus Christ and this is what he will do for the people first and then the gentiles. There is an order to consider. Anyway, this is about the gentiles and not a promise to them.

There is a context to all scripture that the honest person will honor.

The covenant in Verse 6 is obviously a reference to the New Covenant. Light is a metaphor for understanding in the scriptures and the word "shall" is future tense. All the covenants with Israel had already been made at the time of Isaiah, except the New Covenant.

Think! Believe the words.

 

Here is what the book says:

Ep 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

If gentiles would have had a promise they would have had hope.

Your problem is in your thinking. You have ordered your thinking to not believe the words. Therefore you cannot reason with logic.

 

You are being dishonest again. Define "thou" and "thee" to understand to whom the promise was made. This is about the gentiles, not a promise to gentiles. It is about the extent of the influence of this servant to whom he speaks. None of the disciples of the servant when he came thought he had made a promise to save gentiles while they were with him and they no doubt read this verse more than you. In Matt 15 they tried to send a gentile woman away because she was a bother. Remember?

 

Let's just reason a little without the insults. Here is what the great apostle to the gentiles sad in 58 AD when he wrote the letter I am going to quote. This is 28 years after Jesus rose from the dead and 18 years after the incident in Acts 10 when Peter, according to the prophecy in Matt 16, opened the door of faith to gentiles and the believers began receiving the Holy Ghost and eternal life by faith in Jesus Christ, after being preached to. This was also a fulfillment, at least partially of the OT prophecy you quoted in your posts. Remember, the term the people is a reference to Israel and of course gentiles are non Israelites. This is after the gentiles have been accepted into the beloved.

Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

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9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy (this was demonstrated beforehand by the woman in Matt 15); as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.
10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.(Israel)
11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.(of Israel)
12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust. (the second coming)
13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
14 And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.


Paul was not saved and called until 37 AD and it was time for God to begin saving gentiles because of the unbelief of Israel and they would need instruction into the Christian faith.

15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

I apologize for being insulting towards you but not for presenting the truth.

 

What gentiles were saved before 37 AD? Define what you mean by being saved.

 

Van, I am getting ready to make a statement that is not uniquely about you but about many of us who engage in conversation and debate. That is that often times, such as this time, we use the same terminology but with altogether different meanings. An example is your answer to my request that you define the meaning of salvation and you gave me a series of gentile women from the Old Testament, none of whom were saved as the Bible defines salvation from sin. This salvation is a New Testament doctrine. If sinners could be saved before God made the blood sacrifice of his only begotten son then there would be no need for his sacrifice. This fact is actually stated succinctly in Ga 3. I will quote it to you.

Ga 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Ga 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham (that all the families of the earth be blessed) might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The life then for all people in the world is the indwelling Spirit. This is the definition of salvation and it was not possible for anyone in the Old Testament times.

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Nu 14:18 The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

You and I are not defining the salvation from sin in the same way. Those in the OT times were justified by believing what God said to them and their faith was imputed to them for righteousness by the Judge of all the earth but they were not cleared of their sins until the blood of Christ was applied to wash their sins away. Until then they were in Paradise in the center of the earth because they could not enter into the presence of God in that condition.

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

The verse above is dealing with two entities. The church of the firstborn and second, the OT believers, just men made perfect.

The Hebrews was written in about 66 AD.

To the churches he says;

Re 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead (the firstborn), and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

If the professing church agreed on the definition of salvation there would not be so many divisions, but we don't.

The first born again gentile was Cornelius and his household in Acts 10 in the year AD 40 and it was Peter, the possessor of the keys to the kingdom of heaven who opened the door of faith to us.

Matt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

Ac 14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.

Acts 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

Ac 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

Consider these words.