Baptist Purgatory

Originally posted by Lacy Evans:
The bad part about it is that he might have something to say. I'm just not willing to wade through the sewers looking for nuggets.

The Baptist "brother" has a bile bellowing bazooka with which he bludgeons blood bought believers. (Alliteration is easy!)

Lacy

Eph 4:31,32 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Click to expand...

Lacy,

YOu use the "CLASSIC" refutation by all those who get caught in their own hypocrisy. This is an attempt to "overthrow" the PAULINE DOCTRINAL TEACHING of rule of authority to MARK false brethren, who don't adhere to SOUND DOCTRINE. It's the idea,"Don't point out my SINS, HERESIES, and ERRORS to me because I am a believing brother. You can't speak to me that way."

Sure I can, son. I'm a preacher with authority to do so. (Eph.4, 2 Tim.2) It's for your edification, NOT YOUR DESTRUCTION. (2 Cor.10,13) It's to SAVE YOU from false doctrine (1 Tim.4) with SHARP REBUKE (Titus 1), telling you to TEACH NTHER DOCTRINE (1 Tim.1). It ain't no "good time" fishing, hunting, or camping trip. It's NOT discussion or sharing, but PREACHING and TEACHING. If there's not acceptation, repentance, and belief; there is REJECTION, blasphemy, and contradicting.

You should know that IF you're any kind of a preacher whatsoever.

You REJECTED the Pauline passage which concerns the SPEECH of a man who teaches false doctrine, and the DUALITY of SPEECH of a man who teaches SOUND DOCTRINE. (Rom.16, 1 Cor.2)

You got caught being a HYPROCRITE. Don't play the martyr by trying to justify yourself. You just REJECT more verses, and sink deeper into unbelief, damnation, and apostasy.

One of the ways which IDENTIFIES you boys is your own REJECTION OF PROFESSION (fear of the Lord) in trying to follow the fruit of the Spirit, but can ONLY MANIFEST the works of the flesh. (Gal.5) You're not going to make it, BY YOUR OWN STANDARD.

It WILL "all" be settled at the JUDGMENT. Just like Ole' Micaiah, the son of Imla said. Hide and watch.

I honestly hope and pray that you will "wade" through "my sharp speech" and try the conclusions. A man's mouth never bothered me one bit. The truth of his SUBJECT of statement does. I waded through Faust's idiocy, and I'll probably wade through many more until the Lord comes back. THAT'S MY JOB, as Conway Twitty said. I have to "protect and feed" the sheep, EVEN AGAINST false brethren. (Acts 15,20)

So long brother.

In Christ Jesus,
Carl

Originally posted by carlaimpinge:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Lacy Evans:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by carlaimpinge:
Lacy,

Your big brother (champion?) emailed me last night. I wrote him back. It's contained on my site.

Good day.

In Christ Jesus,
Carl

Click to expand...

I'm sure it is absolutey riveting.

zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Lacy </font>[/QUOTE]Ya'll boys NEVER disappoint me. I didn't expect any less from you.

Isaiah 56:10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.

Acts 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

Acts 28:24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

Acts 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,

Acts 28:26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:

Acts 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Acts 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

Acts 28:29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.


And off they go into the sunset......

The ravenous "professing" NON-RUCKMANITE RIDERS riveted by "Ruckmanesque" language.

</font>[/QUOTE]Proverbs 2:3-6
3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;
5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.
6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Every. In the original greek, that means all of them. I have a doctrine that enables me to do this. You must discount a majority of the scriptures as not applying to yourself. I pray that you will understand the fear of the Lord before it is too late.

You boys need to move this heresy into All Other Denominations!

Certainly it is heresy but you would be surprised how many folks believe in universalism. The end result is the same as Baptist Purgatory.

2Timothy 4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

God is reviving this truth in these last days, and people are starting to believe it. It would be folly to judge the matter before you have heard it. It has little in common with universalism. However, I would be interested in knowing what you think the fruit of this teaching might be, gb93433. I have seen the fruit of it. It brings godly fear and repentence of sin. It brings peace when you can finally rest in the assurance of your salvation without having to look at your works to wonder if you have really believed or will persevere. It brings light to those dark passages in the bible that you can't understand, that you used to apply to unbelievers and Jews even though Jesus was talking to His disciples.

Unless you have applied yourself to the scriptures and shown yourself approved in this matter, you only have a baseless opinion. At the very least, brother Carl has made an effort to do so, although he is short changing himself by not allowing himself to know the full counsel of God. We are grafted into the vine, brother Carl. If He spared not the natural branches, we must take heed lest He spare not us also.

The Lord Himself said these words:
Matthew 7
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

What is few? Can we honestly say that few people have been saved? How many millions have been washed in the blood (He died for the sins of the world, you know) that we can consider them few? The Lord is not speaking about unbelievers getting saved, He is speaking about believers finding the path that leads to that glorious life in His kingdom!

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

If you are not doing the will of God, do not expect to enter the kingdom. Write this off as for the the Jews, call me a heretic, whatever you want to do. I will gladly suffer anything for my Lord and His truth. But one thing you cannot do is say I didn't warn you. The watchmen are waking up, but nobody is heeding the alarm.

Luke 12:47-48
47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

The Master is coming back, we need to be ready for Him, it is not a joke.

Originally posted by James_Newman:

Jonah 2
2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
3 For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.
8 They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.

Click to expand...

Bro James, This is very easy to clear up. Read verse one of chapter two. If....you cannot figure out where Jonah actually was after reading this then I don't know what to say. In our scriptures there is Metaphor, Simile, Symbolism and Rhetorical statements and questions. I know now what to say I just remembered...."ye have need of milk".
Thanks ------Bart

Originally posted by James_Newman:

Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Click to expand...

Bro James,
Once again the beginning of the chapter sets the context. Psa 139 speaks of the continuing presence of God with his child. If you elect to interpret this verse to allow it to help your doctrine, then being consistent, you must also say that you, as David were both made in secret and curiously wrought in the lower parts of the earth. Did we come from hell to end up there during the millinium? Do you realize that according to this Psalm you can take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea? What is that....the lost city of Atlantis? How far are you going to go with this?
Thanks ------Bart

I understand your point, brother. But I do not believe that Jonah was alive inside a whale for three days. What does he say?

Jon 2:5 The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.
Jon 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

Jonah was certainly praying from within the belly of the fish, but I would read that this occurred after he had drowned, gone to hell and was brought back up. In his prayer from inside the fish, he says he cried, past tense, from the belly of hell, and God heard him. God revived him inside the fish, and Jonah repented and then the fish spat him out.

Originally posted by Bartimaeus:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by James_Newman:

Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Click to expand...

Bro James,
Once again the beginning of the chapter sets the context. Psa 139 speaks of the continuing presence of God with his child. If you elect to interpret this verse to allow it to help your doctrine, then being consistent, you must also say that you, as David were both made in secret and curiously wrought in the lower parts of the earth. Did we come from hell to end up there during the millinium? Do you realize that according to this Psalm you can take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea? What is that....the lost city of Atlantis? How far are you going to go with this?
Thanks ------Bart </font>[/QUOTE]I'm not going any where with this, this merely shows that the argument that (I believe it was) going to hell would separate a believer from the love of God is silly, and is only an emotional reaction to a truth that is hard for some to swallow. Hell is not any further removed from God's love than is New Jersey. As you said, the presence of God with the believer is continuing, regardless of where He puts you as His child.

Bro Lacy, Bro James, av1611, Deacon Lew,

Let me ask you all a question.
Supposing one out of the four of you make it to the millinial kingdom, the other three end up in hell. What makes you think that it will only takes 1000 years to burn off your unprofitableness? It's a little presumptuous to think that you were good enough in your Christian life to even get out in a 1000 years. What if you are so bad it take 1001 years? How do you know you will make it into the kingdom anyway? I know one of you said something like, "If I am faithful to the end". So...you pillow your head tonight and thank God you were faithful enough today? Sounds like the Pharasee in the Pharasee/publican story. If not then you hit the hay wondering if you made it and hope you live through the night to work another day. What kind of peace is that? I have seen scriptures turned and used incorrectly and breached to support a doctrine that has the Rags of Catholicism in it. You are right, not all that the Catholics believe is wrong. Just Parts. Strangely enough, I say the same about The Kingdom Exclusion Delusion.
Thanks -------Bart
P.S. If I named a person incorrectly in my intro, I apologize beforehand.

Bro James,
"Hell" is clearly a metaphor and the words, "brought up my life from corruption", obviously you have never cleaned a fish before because if you had you would know what happens to fish bait in the belly of a fish. IT CORRUPTS! Please don't string this out to say something that it doesn't. If Jonah could be swallowed by a fish and spit up again, why couldn't God have kept him alive for 3 days? Not hard for me to see or believe. What do you do with "her bars was about me forever"?
Thanks -------Bart

Originally posted by James_Newman:
]

Click to expand...

Proverbs 2:3-6
3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;
5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.
6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Every. In the original greek, that means all of them. I have a doctrine that enables me to do this. You must discount a majority of the scriptures as not applying to yourself. I pray that you will understand the fear of the Lord before it is too late. [/QB][/QUOTE]

James,

I don't discount any passges. I rightly divide them as instructed. I believe the one who SAID both in the same epistle. (2 Tim.2:15, 3:16)

You DIVIDE some passages, then FALSELY STATE you don't, giving the false impression that Pauline prinicple is incorrect within the men you slander. That is hypocrisy.

Your "search" for the truth is a dead end. You profess that you do, but in reality, you can't STUDY any teaching which contradicts yours due to your prejudice and bias. It's certainly plain to me about you boys. Always remember that some HOLD THE TRUTH in unrighteousness. (Rom.2)

Your TESTIMONY is that of a deceived, seduced man within the Book. You boys paint OTHERS who don't teach your doctrine as those who PROMOTE SIN and UNREPENTANCE within their lives and congregations. Don't bother to try and contradict me son, I know better. I read your champion's book, and that's exactly what he states and his modern-day quotes from others. (See Dollar) That is someone who is LYING to you, and you have believed them. I preach Titus 2 among many concerning godly living.

Assurance of salvation is NOT BROUGHT by believing your doctrine as you allege. It brings DESTRUCTION due to rejection of the Book. (2 Peter 3, 1 Tim.1) Peace, assurance, and quietness come from the WORK OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

I'll quote one of the verses which I allegedly DISCOUNT.

Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.

It actually refers to Israel, but ALSO applies to me as PAULINE TRUTH. (Rom.3-5,10, 1 John 5) Now how bout' dat right division. Paul PREACHED the full counsel of God. (Acts 20)

Quote:

It brings light to those dark passages in the bible that you can't understand, that you used to apply to unbelievers and Jews even though Jesus was talking to His disciples.

Unquote.

Son, you display your ignorance. Discipleship WAS NOT salvation. HEARING THE LORD did not guarantee their belief. You are very foolish. MANY DISCIPLES heard the Lord, then "left". (John 6) They QUIT following as the parables of the kingdom of heaven teach. (Matt.13) They didn't BELIEVE. They were not SAVED during that time as us.

You state I shortchange myself, and I state that you reject Pauline principle, and the counsel of God SHOWN TO HIM. It wasn't the same as John's. (Luke 7)

A demonstration of how you distort and pervert passages which do not SPEAK or TEACH of what you state, using them FALSELY out of context. Brother, I deal with people everyday (Catholics, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, Church of Christ) who DO THE SAME as you.

Some examples.

Quote:

If He spared not the natural branches, we must take heed lest He spare not us also.

Unquote.

That's from Romans 11, which has nothing to do with DISOBEDIENT CHRISTIANS, but GENTILES (Rom.11:13) to whom Paul is speaking and warning about the FUTURE REGRAFTING of Israel.

Misapplication DOES NOT PROOFTEXT your falsehood of belief.

Quote:

What is few? Can we honestly say that few people have been saved? How many millions have been washed in the blood (He died for the sins of the world, you know) that we can consider them few? The Lord is not speaking about unbelievers getting saved, He is speaking about believers finding the path that leads to that glorious life in His kingdom!

Unquote.

You begin with QUESTIONING speculation and supposition with the INTENTION of proving your doctrine. You then go to YOUR UNDERSTANDING of few to implement your false teaching. Son, FEW WILL BE SAVED against the backdrop of MANY.

You wrongly teach that THOSE HEARING HIM ARE SAVED.

Quote:

If you are not doing the will of God, do not expect to enter the kingdom. Write this off as for the the Jews, call me a heretic, whatever you want to do. I will gladly suffer anything for my Lord and His truth. But one thing you cannot do is say I didn't warn you. The watchmen are waking up, but nobody is heeding the alarm.

Unquote.

Wrong son. EVERY CHRISTIAN WILL INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. (1 Cor.15:50-56) I will teach your passage is JEWISH because of what HE SAID himself. (Matt.10,15). Your SUFFERING has to be "correct". Some people suffer for thier own SINS and STUPIDITY. (1 Peter 2)

Quote:

The Master is coming back, we need to be ready for Him, it is not a joke.

Unquote.

We KNOW the Master is coming back, yet you teach facts from a COMING which is not doctrinally correct for US. His coming within the gospels is POSTTRIBUATIONAL, not pretribulational.

You misapply verses to the body of Christ, JUST LIKE any Seventh Day Adventist.

OK brother, I'm done arguing with you. I'll pray for you, and I would appreciate the same, if be God hears your prayers.

Originally posted by Bartimaeus:
Bro James,
"Hell" is clearly a metaphor and the words, "brought up my life from corruption", obviously you have never cleaned a fish before because if you had you would know what happens to fish bait in the belly of a fish. IT CORRUPTS! Please don't string this out to say something that it doesn't. If Jonah could be swallowed by a fish and spit up again, why couldn't God have kept him alive for 3 days? Not hard for me to see or believe. What do you do with "her bars was about me forever"?
Thanks -------Bart

Click to expand...

Why is hell clearly a metaphor? I see no reason not to take these verses literally. It's getting way off topic though.

Originally posted by James_Newman:

God is reviving this truth in these last days, and people are starting to believe it. It would be folly to judge the matter before you have heard it. It has little in common with universalism. However, I would be interested in knowing what you think the fruit of this teaching might be, gb93433. I have seen the fruit of it.

If you are not doing the will of God, do not expect to enter the kingdom. Write this off as for the the Jews, call me a heretic, whatever you want to do.

The Master is coming back, we need to be ready for Him, it is not a joke.

Click to expand...

I don't need to call you a heretic if you believe in a Baptist Purgatory. You are. It is a blasphempous heretical, godless doctrine based on works. Of course purgatory has a lot to do with universalism.

Compare the idea of purgatory to Luke 16:19-31, "Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. "And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. "And he cried out and said, `Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' "But Abraham said, `Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. `And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.' "And he said, `Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house-- for I have five brothers--in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' "But Abraham said, `They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.' "But he said, `No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!' "But he said to him, `If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.' "

I don't see your point brother. What did the rich man do that landed him in hell?

Originally posted by James_Newman:
OK brother, I'm done arguing with you. I'll pray for you, and I would appreciate the same, if be God hears your prayers.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the SLUR though about God hearing my prayers. You boys do it everytime. You don't LIKE IT when I point out your incompetence, infidelity, ignorance, illiteracy, and irrationality in the Book. Neither did the "disciples OR religious leaders" who heard the Lord AND Paul, FOR THEY both did that too! Oops, I also forgot to mention your HYPOCRISY. (Accusations of others of things which you do.) See Rom.2.

This is why I will "continue" to do my job and MARK you boys for unsound doctrine.

Brother, I meant no slur. You know if God hears your prayers or not. If He does, please pray for me. Forgive me if I have offended you.

Debat, debate, debate,...... Please give me one verse saying that a lazy servant shall be release or free out of the outer darkness beyond the judgment day?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!