Baptist Purgatory

[carlaimpinge]

Originally posted by James_Newman:
So Paul is a Hebrew under the Mosaic Law in the great tribulation?

Paul EXPLAINS the "not yet" which is in occurrence. (Heb.2) He is explaining it to HEBREWS of the nation of Israel which BELIEVED ON the Messiah, and who DIDN'T, who BOTH STILL WORSHIP under the Mosaic covenant. (Acts 2-7, 24)

The doctrinal truths concern HEBREWS who await the COMING KINGDOM, which is AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION, when God JUDGES his people in the latter days. (Heb.10, Deut.4, 32) The MOSAIC COVENANT is "in effect" at that time. (Dan.9, Matt.24, 2 Thess.2)

The Nation of Israel is STILL UNDER THE LAW. They have not believed. (2 Cor.3, Rom.10)

Paul could teach it, and so simple that I could understand it. And I'm not even a Hebrew.

Ain't dat' sumptin?

 

[James_Newman]

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

So your saying Paul is still under the law? The us includes Paul, doesn't it? Let US labour to enter into that rest.

Hebrews 4:14-16
14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

This is written to believers, not unsaved Jews.

Also, I can appreciate the fact that you believe that the bible teaches this idea of yours, but throwing out genberal scripture references to entire chapters that we have all read doesn't do a lot to edify anyone, nor enlighten anyone as to why you believe the things you do.

 

[carlaimpinge]

Originally posted by James_Newman:
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

So your saying Paul is still under the law? The us includes Paul, doesn't it? Let US labour to enter into that rest.

Hebrews 4:14-16
14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

This is written to believers, not unsaved Jews.

Also, I can appreciate the fact that you believe that the bible teaches this idea of yours, but throwing out genberal scripture references to entire chapters that we have all read doesn't do a lot to edify anyone, nor enlighten anyone as to why you believe the things you do.

No, I didn't. He's under grace. (Rom.6:15)

Son, Paul wrote inclusively in all of his epistles. Didn't I just tell you that he was EXPLAINING to the HEBREWS, believers and unbelievers ALIKE, what was going on?

Of course, Heb.4 is written to BELIEVERS. There are many which reference the unbelievers though, as seen in Heb.2, 3, 6, 10, etc.

Your hard fast RULE of WRONGNESS that he wrote ONLY TO BELIEVERS is false.

Sure the chapters do. They are GIVEN after my statement. READ THEM AND SEE. If you can't find the references within them, ASK ME where they are. READING the Bible is edifying and enlightening ONLY if you believe what you read.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

I'm back.

Premills intepret Rev. 20:5 'a thousand years' into literally, and excatly of how length time. Remember, Revelation chapter 20 is a symbolic meaning and figurative. Not only chapter 20, also, whole book of Revelation are filled of symbols and figuratives.

Myself was a premill for a long time. Till 4 years ago, I left premill camp, I became amill completed.

Premil have LOT of problems conflict with Bible. For examples - Matthew chapter 13 talks about the future one final harvest, Matthew chapter 24 talks about the signs and Christ's coming AT the end of the age. Matthew chapter 25 talks about the future ONE judgment day at Christ's coming AT the end of this age. John 5:27-29 tell us, Christ shall judge the world, both unjust and just shall hear his voice at THE SAME HOUR. John 6:39,40,44, & 54 telling us, all peopel of the world shall be rise on the LAST DAY of the age. And more passages... During Christ's three years of his ministry in Israel throughout the four gospels of the books(Matt, Mark, Luke, and John), NONE of his word metnioned, 'a thousand years' throughout the four gospel books.

'A thousand years' of Rev. 20:2-7 is the picture of length time which dead Christians are now reigning with Christ in the heaven since post-Calvary era to today. It have been already almost 2,000 years. Also, probably, dead Christians will continue reigning with Christ in the heaven for the next another 1,000 years(till 3000 A.D.). 'A thousand years' is the picture of length or long period, not a specifically how long it will be last, but speak of length period being reigning with Christ.

Several weeks ago, I already discussed on 'thousand' with many verses, to show you which one is speak of literal or figurative. You seem not willing to discuss with me on these.

Also, the reason you show me of Rev. 20:5. Because you believe Rev. 20:5 seems prove it is "temperorary time". Also, you showed me of Rev. 20:12-15 that the hell will be OUT, and cast into the lake of fire at the end of the millennial. You saying hell is a temporary place, not eternality place.

I don't care what Hebrews words for 'Hell' or what Greek words for 'hell' with few different definitions. The only basic thing, that we all know there are only TWO destinies(future final state or place) which all people will die and go- heaven and hell. That's simple and plain.

Of course, I am sure that many Christians, pastors, theologians know hell is a temporary place. Yes hell is a temporary place. Hell is for 'prison' all people are already reserved await for the coming judgment day- great white throne. Also, ALLLLLL people are who already in the hell, because their names are NOT find written in the book of life, WILL be cast into the lake of fire, that's period.

I have a good point question for you. If suppose you saying hell is a temporary place, you are right. Then, does that mean heaven is also a temporary place? HUH????

Many times you showed me of Matt. 5:26. Again, and again, I told you of Matt. 5:26 does not take it into literally. Matt. 5:26 same with the context of Matt. 18:23-35 talking about to forgive one another while we are living, NOT beyond our death. Also, Matt. 5:26 does not prove to us, that we shall be released or free out of hell. Notice Matt. 5:25 says a person being cast into prison because of refuse pay the debts same with Matt. 18:34. Remember, Matt. 5:25 & Matt. 18:34 is use as illustration as Christ speaks to us of our living practical. (I believe in Christ's period in year around 30 to 33 A.D., their custom and law in the area of Judea(Israel) is much different than our laws of today's). Christ's point is, person being cast into the prison for refuse pay the debt same as Christ teaches them the lesson, that we ought to forgive one another while are living, if we do not forgive one other, then God would not forgive us. Understand?

Matt. 5:26 & Matt. 18:34 both do not prove of the teaching of millennial exclusion. Both are use as illustration to give us the lesson that we must to forgive one another, or God would not forgive us. Your logical of Matt. 5:26 & 18:34 of millennial exclusion is a flaw and fallacy.

I believe there are great tears during great white throne, because we shall be tears break our hearts to see our love ones who will cast away into the lake of fire. I have no problem with Rev. 21:4. God shall wipe our tears away, show that God have power to erase our memory away, shall not be obsess of negatives anymore. We will forget EVERYTHING!!!

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Carl,

The Book of Hebrews do not limited for the Jews only, also, it apply to all indivdual of believers Jew and Gentile.

The book of Hebrews talk lot of conditional warnings, that we ought to listen, and do not ignore or neglect them.

1 Corinthians 10:1 - "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;". Apostle Paul tells us, that we should not be one of them, as what happened to them duirng 40 years in the wilderness. Obivous, the context of 1 Cor. 10:1-11 is speak to us as believers, that we should NOT be same as what they did in the wilderness. 1 Corinthians chapter 10 is much same with Hebrews chapter 3 and 4. I believe the book of Hebrews must be written by Paul.

Yes, the book of Hebrews do apply to us as believers, that we must not neglect the warnings of conditional, what was happened to them in the wilderness. We should NOT be one of them, what happened to them.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[carlaimpinge]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:
Carl,

The Book of Hebrews do not limited for the Jews only, also, it apply to all indivdual of believers Jew and Gentile.

The book of Hebrews talk lot of conditional warnings, that we ought to listen, and do not ignore or neglect them.

1 Corinthians 10:1 - "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;". Apostle Paul tells us, that we should not be one of them, as what happened to them duirng 40 years in the wilderness. Obivous, the context of 1 Cor. 10:1-11 is speak to us as believers, that we should NOT be same as what they did in the wilderness. 1 Corinthians chapter 10 is much same with Hebrews chapter 3 and 4. I believe the book of Hebrews must be written by Paul.

Yes, the book of Hebrews do apply to us as believers, that we must not neglect the warnings of conditional, what was happened to them in the wilderness. We should NOT be one of them, what happened to them.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

DPT,

Your opinions are not worthy of print.

The title LIMITS it to Jews. It is called the book of HEBREWS. It speaks of how God CALLED THEM, SPOKE to them, told them how to worship, and the point of it all. Christ Jesus who came from the Jews (Heb.2) to CALL THEM unto himself. (Heb.2)

There are BELIEVERS and UNBELIEVERS within that nation, to whom the COVENANTS are given, made and WILL BE FULFILLED. (Heb.8,10)

It speaks of the JUDGMENT UPON THEM, which is future. Paul IS EXPLAINING what happened and what is GOING TCCUR before he comes back DUE TO THE UNBELIEF OF THE NATION.

If one of them doesn't believe, THEN THE IMPUTATION OF UNBELIEF GOES TO ALL. See Achan for the OT, and Paul for the NT.(Rom.10-11)

1 Cor. is not Hebrews. (Practical application is readily apparent, but DOCTRINAL TRUTH "nationally" does not relate INDIVIDUALLY to members of the body.

Rightly dividing the word of truth would help correct your MANIFEST "heresies". (1 Cor.11)

In Christ Jesus,
Carl

 

[James_Newman]

Your opinions are not worthy of print.

Why don't you just come right out and say what you mean, brother? You seem to be full of hate toward your brothers, for no good reason other than you disagree with us doctrinally. You get all worked up about MANIFEST "heresies", what if we were all heretics, what would happen to us? You say a Christian has nothing to fear, so should I be scared of something if I am a heretic?

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

You need to rightly divide this verse and figure out what Jesus is talking about. I'm done talking to you, brother. I pray God will have mercy on you and open your eyes.

In Christ,
James Newman

 

[carlaimpinge]

Originally posted by James_Newman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Your opinions are not worthy of print.

Why don't you just come right out and say what you mean, brother? You seem to be full of hate toward your brothers, for no good reason other than you disagree with us doctrinally. You get all worked up about MANIFEST "heresies", what if we were all heretics, what would happen to us? You say a Christian has nothing to fear, so should I be scared of something if I am a heretic?

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

You need to rightly divide this verse and figure out what Jesus is talking about. I'm done talking to you, brother. I pray God will have mercy on you and open your eyes.

In Christ,
James Newman </font>[/QUOTE]James,

DPT has the “ability” LIKE YOURSELF to just state his fantasies of belief.

I said exactly what I meant to say. It corrected his statements AND yours. Did you speak about that? Nope, you sure didn't. You were interested NOT IN THE SCRIPTURES, but how you perceived my presentation of them.

Full of hate towards my brothers? Not in the least. It appears that you HATE correction and reproof. I answered your last post with no response except THIS ONE to “stir up” more trouble. The Lord HATES that. (Pro.6) That’s the HATRED and VARIANCE against brothers. That’s the WORKS OF THE FLESH. (Gal.5)

It’s not hatred to CORRECT your brother, son. That’s called CHARITY for your brother. It's giving them the TRUTH. (Gal.4) I don’t want you to go down the ROAD of apostasy. It’s MY JOB to tell you that, so says Paul. (1 Tim.1, 2 Tim.4, Titus 1)

Are you going to doubletalk yourself to death? You will. You should be scared of teaching heresy, for it brings DEATH. (1 Tim.1) Isn’t that what you said you feared? But you boys are so spiritual, scriptural, and smart alecks, that you are SCARED to deal with anyone who presents SCRIPTURE opposite of you. Well, I’m not, son. I’ve read THE MATERIAL put out by your Goliath, studied it, and checked it against the Book. It’s the ignorant, incompetent, irrational, illiterate teaching of INFIDELITY. And that's not HATRED. That's just what the Lord Jesus Christ and Paul "practiced" AGAINST anyone (religious or not, believer or not) who SPOKE contrary to the WORDS OF GOD ALMIGHTY.

I already have rightly divided the verse. It’s posted on the other thread discussing this dog vomit and hog slop put out by you boys. I’m writing a REFUTATION of this material. You know where it’s at, and it's discussed there also. If you got the guts read the thing, and REFUTE it.

QUIT FOLLOWING YOUR MAN'S TEACHING AND FOLLOW THE BOOK.

James, the Lord has opened my eyes, and CONTINUES to open them in his Book. (Eph.1) He opened my eyes to your false teachings so that I could DISPUTE, CORRECT, and REBUKE you, while “marking” those who teach this foolish stupidity, NOT FOLLOWING the sound doctrine given by the apostle Paul. (2 Tim.2, 4, Rom.16)

I'll say it LIKE Paul told Timothy to tell them. TEACH NTHER DOCTRINE.

Sayonara son.

In Christ Jesus,
Carl

 

[av1611jim]

Carl;

That is the funniest rationalisation I have ever seen!
"The title LIMITS it to Jews. It is called the book of HEBREWS."
You'er kidding right?
So...Matthew was to Matthew, John was to John, Titus was to Titus etc, and NONE of it is applicable to Believers?
PUHLEEZE!
That is the best illustration of penknife theology I have seen to date, your prolific use (mis-use) of Scripture notwithstanding.
Thanks for the chuckle friend!

In HIS service;
Jim

 

[av1611jim]

Oh and by the way Carl;
You didn't refute anything. You simply PARROTED your mentor's hateful rhetoric.
That old man in Florida does it (spues hatred and vitriol) better than you. You really ought to get a new schtick. That one is taken.

In HIS service;
Jim

 

[carlaimpinge]

Originally posted by av1611jim:
Carl;

That is the funniest rationalisation I have ever seen!
"The title LIMITS it to Jews. It is called the book of HEBREWS."
You'er kidding right?
So...Matthew was to Matthew, John was to John, Titus was to Titus etc, and NONE of it is applicable to Believers?
PUHLEEZE!
That is the best illustration of penknife theology I have seen to date, your prolific use (mis-use) of Scripture notwithstanding.
Thanks for the chuckle friend!

In HIS service;
Jim

No rationalization, just simple READING. TO HEBREWS. Of course, you can't read English though, can you? You build your case on illiteracy and distortion.

EXAMPLE.

Matthew is NOT WRITTEN to Matthew, silly boy. It's the GOSPEL according to Matthew. The incompetence manifested by you is outrageous.

Let's check your deception now, shall we?

I stated several times that Hebrews was written to believers AND unbelievers.

You couldn't read that either, could you?

Yes, you boys can only speak about what you don't know about. You're all mouth. (Full of wind, Job 15)

That's hot air in "modern day" colloquial.

Blow on.

 

[carlaimpinge]

Originally posted by av1611jim:
Oh and by the way Carl;
You didn't refute anything. You simply PARROTED your mentor's hateful rhetoric.
That old man in Florida does it (spues hatred and vitriol) better than you. You really ought to get a new schtick. That one is taken.

In HIS service;
Jim

The hypocrite speaks? The railer who doesn't like to be IDENTIFIED for his heresy. The Lord and Paul BOTH PRACTICED that "marking" technique. (Excuse me, in your words, HATEFUL RHETORIC!) Matt.23, Luke 24, 2 Tim.2, Titus 1)

I've certainly "refuted" your foolishness every time we've spoken.

Sorry, but you got the wrong guy. MY MENTOR is Paul, who follows the Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Cor.11, 1 Tim.1) I'm cut from his pattern.

I'd love to see your refutation of my facts for I don't have time to respond to every "malicious railing" that you want to present against a bible believer.

In Christ Jesus,
Carl

 

[Lacy Evans]

No rationalization, just simple READING. TO HEBREWS. Of course, you can't read English though, can you? You build your case on illiteracy and distortion.

Sorry, but you got the wrong guy. MY MENTOR is Paul, who follows the Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Cor.11, 1 Tim.1) I'm cut from his pattern.

Hmmmm. KJV Oxford, 1769
Title-
The Epistle of Paul The Apostle to the Hebrews.

Pretty "Pauline" to me. I guess Paul is a stinkin', lyin',boy, hypocrite (like me, James, Jim, and DPT.) that needs to be marked by Carl.

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

I'm sure there were unsaved Jews running around, but Paul does not address them. You just have to believe that way because your "system" cannot accomodate 3:11-19.


Lacy

 

[carlaimpinge]

Originally posted by Lacy Evans:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />No rationalization, just simple READING. TO HEBREWS. Of course, you can't read English though, can you? You build your case on illiteracy and distortion.

Sorry, but you got the wrong guy. MY MENTOR is Paul, who follows the Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Cor.11, 1 Tim.1) I'm cut from his pattern.

Hmmmm. KJV Oxford, 1769
Title-
The Epistle of Paul The Apostle to the Hebrews.

Pretty "Pauline" to me. I guess Paul is a stinkin', lyin',boy, hypocrite (like me, James, Jim, and DPT.) that needs to be marked by Carl.

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

I'm sure there were unsaved Jews running around, but Paul does not address them. You just have to believe that way because your "system" cannot accomodate 3:11-19.


Lacy </font>[/QUOTE]Lacy,

And just when I thought we were developing an amicable relationship?

Of course Paul wrote Hebrews. I have always said that he has.

You made your MISTAKE when you said that Paul didn't ADDRESS them.

He ADDRESSED Hebrews. Some had believed, BUT some had not. See Romans. That's CERTAINLY PAULINE and he wrote of which I speak.(Rom.9-11)

According to Peter, Paul wrote to them, and WARNED of others who wrest his teachings. (2 Peter 3)

Deal with the teachings Lacy. My BIBLICAL BELIEF accomodates everything he said. Those who DID NOT enter into his rest were UNBELIEVERS. (4:1-3) Just as you find IN HEBREWS.

In Christ Jesus,
Carl

 

[Lacy Evans]

Originally posted by carlaimpinge:
And just when I thought we were developing an amicable relationship?

I can hardly tell when you are being serious and when you are being smart.

Of course Paul wrote Hebrews. I have always said that he has.

You made your MISTAKE when you said that Paul didn't ADDRESS them.

I showed you in 3:1 who was being addressed.

He ADDRESSED Hebrews. Some had believed, BUT some had not. . . .

It is just not there.

According to Peter, Paul wrote to them, and WARNED of others who wrest his teachings. (2 Peter 3)

It aint there either. You assume that those unlearned and unstable folks are not saved.

Deal with the teachings Lacy. My BIBLICAL BELIEF accomodates everything he said. Those who DID NOT enter into his rest were UNBELIEVERS. (4:1-3) Just as you find IN HEBREWS.

In the type, all those who failed to enter were under the blood of the passover lamb. That is plain as day.

Those who are in danger now of not entering his rest are , holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling,[Who should]consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; and include your "mentor" Paul. "Us" (4:1) means, "Me and Y'all".

Lacy

 

[carlaimpinge]

Originally posted by Lacy Evans:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by carlaimpinge:
And just when I thought we were developing an amicable relationship?

I can hardly tell when you are being serious and when you are being smart.

Of course Paul wrote Hebrews. I have always said that he has.

You made your MISTAKE when you said that Paul didn't ADDRESS them.

I showed you in 3:1 who was being addressed.

He ADDRESSED Hebrews. Some had believed, BUT some had not. . . .

It is just not there.

According to Peter, Paul wrote to them, and WARNED of others who wrest his teachings. (2 Peter 3)

It aint there either. You assume that those unlearned and unstable folks are not saved.

Deal with the teachings Lacy. My BIBLICAL BELIEF accomodates everything he said. Those who DID NOT enter into his rest were UNBELIEVERS. (4:1-3) Just as you find IN HEBREWS.

In the type, all those who failed to enter were under the blood of the passover lamb. That is plain as day.

Those who are in danger now of not entering his rest are , holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling,[Who should]consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; and include your "mentor" Paul. "Us" (4:1) means, "Me and Y'all".

Lacy </font>[/QUOTE]Lacy,

You wanted to take up for your buddies and be smart. I can understand that.

Yes, and I told you that he addressed believers AND unbelievers. ALL of the Hebrews are not saved. He is writing to the NATION, warning them about CONTINUING ON (believers) and THOSE WHO HAVE'NT trusted him as yet. (Heb.6,10) They heard and saw those things. (See the book of Acts, 1-7.)

Paul was TRYING to save some of them. (1 Cor.9, Rom.11)

You don't get the DISTINCTION of type.

OUR INDIVIDUAL SALVATION is likened unto THE NATION'S INHERITANCE. (Rom.4, Gal.3)

The nation is the SON. (Ex.4) It will get the inheritance of the land, no matter what. THE INDIVIDUALS within the nation are not SONS OF GOD during the OT. They were NOT under the blood of the covenant, for Paul said they DID NOT BELIEVE. (3:17-19, 4:1-3) They didn't have the PATIENCE. They died and went to hell, AS ALL THOSE WHO REBELLED in the wilderness.

Paul is writing to them AS A HEBREW. He is certainly not NUMBERED among them though. He is the FIRST in a pattern. (1 Tim.1) It concerns the LONGSUFFERING and GRACE of the Lord Jesus Christ as manifested under the dispensation of the grace of God GIVEN unto him by REVELATION. (Rom.16, Titus 1, Eph.3)


In Christ Jesus,
Carl

 

[Lacy Evans]

Originally posted by carlaimpinge:
You wanted to take up for your buddies and be smart. I can understand that.

I'm sure you can!

Yes, and I told you that he addressed believers AND unbelievers. ALL of the Hebrews are not saved. He is writing to the NATION, warning them about CONTINUING ON (believers) and THOSE WHO HAVE'NT trusted him as yet. . . .

Then why doesn't Paul tell them HOW to get saved? Why is he trying to keep them under the old yoke? He is of the Jewish nation too! How come he (US) doesn't have to worry about failing to enter the rest? HE DOES! And so do we!

Paul was TRYING to save some of them. (1 Cor.9, Rom.11)

Then why not tell them to simply believe in the finished atonement of Christ?

You don't get the DISTINCTION of type.

OUR INDIVIDUAL SALVATION is likened unto THE NATION'S INHERITANCE. (Rom.4, Gal.3)

The nation is the SON. (Ex.4) It will get the inheritance of the land, no matter what. THE INDIVIDUALS within the nation are not SONS OF GOD during the OT. They were NOT under the blood of the covenant, for Paul said they DID NOT BELIEVE. (3:17-19, 4:1-3) They didn't have the PATIENCE. They died and went to hell, AS ALL THOSE WHO REBELLED in the wilderness.

The distinction is only evident in your words, not Paul's. The unbelief they were guilty of is the exact same unbelief we (Christians)are warned
against. Once under the blood, and partakers of the power of the Holy Spirit, they fainted when confronted by Giants. This is exactly what Heb 6 teaches

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Lacy

 

[carlaimpinge]

Originally posted by Lacy Evans:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by carlaimpinge:
You wanted to take up for your buddies and be smart. I can understand that.

I'm sure you can!

Yes, and I told you that he addressed believers AND unbelievers. ALL of the Hebrews are not saved. He is writing to the NATION, warning them about CONTINUING ON (believers) and THOSE WHO HAVE'NT trusted him as yet. . . .

Then why doesn't Paul tell them HOW to get saved? Why is he trying to keep them under the old yoke? He is of the Jewish nation too! How come he (US) doesn't have to worry about failing to enter the rest? HE DOES! And so do we!

Paul was TRYING to save some of them. (1 Cor.9, Rom.11)

Then why not tell them to simply believe in the finished atonement of Christ?

You don't get the DISTINCTION of type.

OUR INDIVIDUAL SALVATION is likened unto THE NATION'S INHERITANCE. (Rom.4, Gal.3)

The nation is the SON. (Ex.4) It will get the inheritance of the land, no matter what. THE INDIVIDUALS within the nation are not SONS OF GOD during the OT. They were NOT under the blood of the covenant, for Paul said they DID NOT BELIEVE. (3:17-19, 4:1-3) They didn't have the PATIENCE. They died and went to hell, AS ALL THOSE WHO REBELLED in the wilderness.

The distinction is only evident in your words, not Paul's. The unbelief they were guilty of is the exact same unbelief we (Christians)are warned
against. Once under the blood, and partakers of the power of the Holy Spirit, they fainted when confronted by Giants. This is exactly what Heb 6 teaches

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Lacy </font>[/QUOTE]Lacy,

The book of Hebrews is Paul's doctrinal and dispensational explanation of the first coming of the Lord Jesus Christ to the nation of Israel SEPARATE from the body of Christ. (Acts 9) There were believers who HEARD the gospel of the kingdom, NOT the gospel of the grace of God which he addressed. HE WAS NOT PART OF THAT NATION. He was the first in a PATTERN of those which should HEREAFTER BELIEVE. (The body of Christ) 1 Tim.1

These people (the Israel of God, the CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN, Heb.2, 12, Matt.16) were REVEALED to be in the Body of Christ by Paul. (Rom.9-11)

Paul doesn't keep them under the old yoke. That was SETTLED at Acts 15. They are STILL KEEPING the law though, due to them being JEWS for the temple is there. (Acts 21) The SAVED JEWS understand the offering and sacrifice of the Lord, while the UNBELIEVERS don't.

Again, Paul writes as a HEBREW explaining these doctrinal and dispensational truths which will AFFECT those within Daniel's week, which culminates in the SECOND APPEARANCE of Jesus Christ to the HEBREWS, not the body of Christ. (Heb.9, Acts 7)

He does in ROMANS.

ONLY JOSHUA AND CALEB HAD THE SPIRIT. The other 10 didn't Lacy. ALL UNDER THE OT do not get the Spirit. (Num.11) They were under a covenant of blood which concerned WORKS. (Ex.24) All that the Lord hath said, we will DO!

It's the same way IN THE TRIB. (Faith and works) The faith of Jesus and keep the commandments of God. (Rev.14, 22)

All of those things were true for the nation. They were not RENEWED UNTO REPENTANCE. They are going to GO THROUGH the "recompense", which is concerns the tribulation in the latter days.

There's your verses in Heb.10 QUOTED from Deut.4,32, as I've posted before.

Relogating Hebrews to believers only is not correct. Paul wrote to the Galatians and Corinthians JUST LIKE he wrote to these. There were BELIEVERS and those who Paul DOUBTED as believers. (1 Cor.15, 2 Cor.6,13, Gal.4-6)

In Christ Jesus,
Carl

 

[Lacy Evans]

Originally posted by carlaimpinge:
ONLY JOSHUA AND CALEB HAD THE SPIRIT. The other 10 didn't Lacy. ALL UNDER THE OT do not get the Spirit. (Num.11) They were under a covenant of blood which concerned WORKS. (Ex.24) All that the Lord hath said, we will DO!

1 Corinthians 10:1-5
1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

It's the same way IN THE TRIB. (Faith and works) The faith of Jesus and keep the commandments of God. (Rev.14, 22)

Faith and works must come after faith alone. The blood before blood and water. Passover before red sea. Altar before laver. The trib saints are saved the only way man can be. They are redeemed by the blood (Rev 5:9, Rev 14:3,4) They gain entrance to the Kingdom (Crowns, etc.) the same way we do. Faith plus works. (Rev 2:10, 3:11,20:6)

The "Jews in the trib" is an interesting wriggle, but it is not Biblical.


Lacy

 

[carlaimpinge]

Originally posted by Lacy Evans:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by carlaimpinge:
ONLY JOSHUA AND CALEB HAD THE SPIRIT. The other 10 didn't Lacy. ALL UNDER THE OT do not get the Spirit. (Num.11) They were under a covenant of blood which concerned WORKS. (Ex.24) All that the Lord hath said, we will DO!

1 Corinthians 10:1-5
1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

It's the same way IN THE TRIB. (Faith and works) The faith of Jesus and keep the commandments of God. (Rev.14, 22)

Faith and works must come after faith alone. The blood before blood and water. Passover before red sea. Altar before laver. The trib saints are saved the only way man can be. They are redeemed by the blood (Rev 5:9, Rev 14:3,4) They gain entrance to the Kingdom (Crowns, etc.) the same way we do. Faith plus works. (Rev 2:10, 3:11,20:6)

The "Jews in the trib" is an interesting wriggle, but it is not Biblical.


Lacy </font>[/QUOTE]Lacy,

There’s your Calvinism coming through. ALL BELIEVERS IN THE BIBLE ARE NOT SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH AS YOU AND I ARE. Paul said they were not. The dispensation of the grace of God did not OCCUR historically UNTIL the salvation of Paul, the FIRST in the pattern. (1 Tim.1) That is the LONGSUFFERING of Jesus Christ. It is GRACE and MERCY applied to all sinners EQUAL, ALIKE, and without DIFFERENCE through the gospel of the grace of God given to him.

You have it OPERATING in the OT. It does not. The righteousness of God WAS NOT REVEALED in the OT according to Paul. (Rom. 3) It is NOW REVEALED by revelation unto him. (Rom.16) Righteousness was imputed by KEEPING THE LAW. It included FAITH to DO THOSE THINGS. (works) Deut.6, Luke 1, Heb.11.

It is NO LONGER of works, according to Paul. (Rom.11)

Abraham was saved by FAITH AND WORKS individually (James 2), but he got the INHERITANCE, THE LAND, THE REST FOR THE NATION OF ISRAEL, by faith. (Gen.15, Ex.4, Deut.12) You’ve got it turned around.

Their RECEPTION of inheritance (which is by faith) is LIKENED unto our SALAVATION. (Rom.4, Gal.3)

They gain ENTRANCE into the kingdom WHICH IS SALVATION for them by faith and works. (Matt.7, 21,22, 24, 25)

We INHERIT the kingdom (like Israel as a nation) simply by faith. (Eph.1) We are translated into it NOW spiritually, and we will be IN IT physically, when our bodies are changed. The REWARD of the inheritance is given by works. (Col.3) It comes by suffering for Jesus Christ. It concerns the joint-reign of Jesus Christ. (Rom.8, 2 Tim.2)

Oh yes, faith and works is BIBLICAL. I gave you the verses.

There are two times for shedding of blood for the Nation under the OT. The Passover and the Law. They BELIEVED and got to leave, but they had to work to get into the land, the inheritance, which is the REST. (Deut.12) Those who died in REBELLION went to hell. They're not awaiting resurrection to get into the inheritance Lacy.

The NT NOW has the shedding of Christ's blood AND the keeping of the commandments. (The faith of Jesus and testimony of Jesus Christ PLUS the keeping of the commandments of God.) That's what it SAYS.

Revelations 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelations 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

If they don’t HOLD OUT, as in Hebrews and the Gospels, they are KILLED at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and sent to HELL. They are considered hypocrites and unbelievers.

Calvinistic Accountability is a good name for what you believe.

In Christ Jesus,
Carl