Baptist Purgatory

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

One thousand years after the judgment seat, everyone is brought up. But you believe they just get to stretch their legs then they get tossed into the lake of fire. Bible says those who are not written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire.

Originally posted by Bartimaeus:
Bro Lacy, Bro James, av1611, Deacon Lew,

Let me ask you all a question.
Supposing one out of the four of you make it to the millinial kingdom, the other three end up in hell. It's a little presumptuous to think that you were good enough in your Christian life to even get out in a 1000 years. What if you are so bad it take 1001 years? I know one of you said something like, "If I am faithful to the end". So...you pillow your head tonight and thank God you were faithful enough today? Sounds like the Pharasee in the Pharasee/publican story. I have seen scriptures turned and used incorrectly and breached to support a doctrine that has the Rags of Catholicism in it. You are right, not all that the Catholics believe is wrong. Just Parts. Strangely enough, I say the same about The Kingdom Exclusion Delusion.
Thanks -------Bart
P.S. If I named a person incorrectly in my intro, I apologize beforehand.

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Brother Bart;
I will answer for myself just the pertinent questions AISI in your post.

What makes you think that it will only takes 1000 years to burn off your unprofitableness?

The purpose is not to "burn off" unprofitableness. It is purely and soley diciplinary. Call it "grounding" if you wish. Like as if you were going on a picnic and your son disobeyed you and you prohibited him from joining the family at the picnic. BTW; my own father did just such a thing to me. When I was 15, I fouled up so badly that he and the rest of the family went to Yellowstone but I did not get to go with them.

How do you know you will make it into the kingdom anyway?

That's the point. I don't know. But I pray everyday that I will be counted worthy.

If not then you hit the hay wondering if you made it and hope you live through the night to work another day. What kind of peace is that?

I don't hit the hay wondering. I pray every night that God will forgive my faults, errors, omissions, sins, etc, for that day and I sleep peacfully knowing He has, according to His matchless mercy and grace as found in the Blood of Jesus.

( sorry. It appears I kinda butchered your post. But the points I bolded came directly from the content of it.)

God bless you brother. You are kind and gracious in this discussion.

In HIS service;
Jim

Understand, people who are already in hell, they are already reserved await for the coming great white throne. When the judgement day comes, the hell shall be cast into the lake of fire. All unjust, disobedient servants shall be resurrection from the graves, and they shall face the judgement day, then they all shall be cast in the lake of fire. "Second Death" of Rev. 2:11 is not a temporary, it is eternality punishment in the lake of fire - Rev. 20:14-15.

Again, I keep asking you, please show us where a verse saying a lazy servant shall be release out of the outer darkness beyond the great white throne day?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

DPT; We keep telling you but you refuse to accept it as our answer. Somehow you think we gotta show you something which you like.

Once more;
Re 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

If you can accept this:
Ro 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

then you can accept the other.

If you can accept Rom. 10 as saying that some will and some will not (call on the Lord) as to the meaning of "whosoever" then you must accept it in the Rev.20 passage. Some will be found in the Lamb's book of life and some will not be found there. You have no real choice in the matter.

In HIS service;
Jim

Originally posted by James_Newman:
Brother, I meant no slur. You know if God hears your prayers or not. If He does, please pray for me. Forgive me if I have offended you.

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James,

No problemo. He's AVAILABLE to hear anyone. He heard me through MY HEARING in the word of God. (Rom.10) He hears me in wants, prayers, supplications, and requests. He answers according to his will. (Rom.8)

I pray that God would give you the same thing Paul REQUESTED for the Ephesians. (Eph.1:17-23)

Originally posted by gb93433:
I don't need to call you a heretic if you believe in a Baptist Purgatory. You are. It is a blasphempous heretical, godless doctrine based on works. Of course purgatory has a lot to do with universalism.

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We (Me, Jim, James, Deaconlew, etc.) do not believe in Purgatory. Millennial Exclusion is not a works-salvation doctrine. It is an absolutely pure faith-alone, once-saved-always-saved doctrine.

At least Carl and DPT have the dignity to actually study what they call heretical.

Here is a very short book with which you can familiarize yourself with the doctrine.

http://www.inthebeginning.org/schoettle/booksonline/panton/judgmentseat.htm

About D M Panton:

David M. Panton was a very able successor to Robert Govett’s pulpit at Surrey Chapel, Norwich, England. Panton was the founder and editor of Dawn magazine, a strong voice for deep scriptural and prophetical truth from 1924 until his death in 1955. Panton was well-known for his speaking and writing abilities concerning scriptural prophetical subjects. He was known as "The Prince of Prophecy."

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Originally posted by Lacy Evans:
At least Carl and DPT have the dignity to actually study what they call heretical.

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gb93433,

That came out wrong. I apologize for appearing to question your "dignity". Please forgive me.

Lacy

Lacy,

None of 'kingdom of God/heaven' passages find anywhere in the Bible, these are so called, "millennial kingdom", or a thousand years of kingdom. None find anywhere in the Bible saying that the kingdom of God/heaven will be last for only 1,000 years limited time.

Kingdom of God/heaven is speak of heavenly things from above, not earthly things. Also, it is speak of our future destiny, that we shall spend eternal life to be with the Lord- salvation.

'Rest' of Hebrews chapter 3 and 4, never so called, 'millennial kingdom'.

When I was a student at Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, MI. That college is an Independent Fundamental Baptist. I took a class - 'Pentatuech'. I remember well, what the teacher taught us about 40 years in the wilderness. The teacher taught, being in the wilderness is speak of facing spiritual warfare, that we are facing spiritual warfare daily in our lifetime. Enter the land of Canaan is the picture of heaven. 'Rest' is speak of have peace in the Lord, trust in the Lord completely. 'Rest' never speak of millennial kingdom. Because it never so called, 'a thoudsand years'.

Any person who is teaching millennial exclusion have misinterpreting Hebrews chapter 3 and 4, what it is talking about. 'Rest' never so called, 'a thousand years of the kingdom'. Hebrews chapter 3 and 4 give us the lesson what happened to Israel during 40 years in the wilderness. They cannot enter the land of Canaan because of their unbelief, it warns us, do not lest us to be one of them. We must be endure and be faithfully to the Lord, or we might be cut off - John 15:6; Romans 11:19-22.

No way you can prove us a verse in the Bible saying that a lazy ssrvant shall be finally release or free out of the outer darkness beyond the judgement day. You do really need a clear solid verse in the Bible to prove us that it teaches us, that a lazy ssrvant shall be finally being release or free out of the outer darkness beyond the judgment day.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

Brother DPT;
We have given you the "clear solid verses" yet you insist on spiritualizing them away.

We can offer you no more than that. Sorry.

You won't here us, nor the testimony of Scripture.

In HIS service;
Jim

Br. Jim I agree.
DeafPost, "No way you can prove us a verse in the Bible saying that a lazy ssrvant shall be finally release or free out of the outer darkness beyond the judgement day."
Re 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Mt 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

No one stays in hell for all eternity.
Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

The final place for the unbeliever is the LOF.
Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

In Rev 7, there were some tears wipped away. Now we have more tears being wiped away after the millenium.
Re 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

On this point the scriptures are clear.

What say ye?
-DeaconLew

I agree Deacon. Totally. There are only TWO ways to get around it and they are
1. Spiritualize the Kingdom.
2. Get out your penknife and dispensationalize the Scripture which contain most of the warnings and totally eliminate all of Jesus' warnings to boot!

Anything else?

In HIS service;
Jim

I think there's a mixup in the definition of hell. Hell is gehenna, the lake of fire...and it's eternal. The KJV calls HADES, the temporary abode of the wicked dead, 'hell', as it does tartarus, the temporary abode of the angels who sinned. "and death and hell(HADES) were cast into the lake of fire."

How can hell be cast into itself?

Check the Greek yourself...the rich man in Jesus' parable was in HADES, while Lazarus was in paradise, or "Abraham's Bosom". Neither was in heaven nor hell.

Originally posted by av1611jim:
I agree Deacon. Totally. There are only TWO ways to get around it and they are
1. Spiritualize the Kingdom.
2. Get out your penknife and dispensationalize the Scripture which contain most of the warnings and totally eliminate all of Jesus' warnings to boot!

Anything else?

In HIS service;
Jim

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Well how bout dat? The CONDEMNATION of their own heresy is described by themselves.

1. UNBELIEF of the Bible concerning the nature of the kingdom
2. UNBELIEF of the Bible concerning the GOD-GIVEN Pauline Principle of Right Division, which the Lord Jesus Christ adhered to himself.

UNBELIEF gets them every single time.

Acts 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

Acts 28:24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

Acts 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,

Acts 28:26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:

Acts 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Acts 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

Acts 28:29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

Acts 28:30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,

Acts 28:31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

Originally posted by DeaconLew:
Br. Jim I agree.
DeafPost, "No way you can prove us a verse in the Bible saying that a lazy ssrvant shall be finally release or free out of the outer darkness beyond the judgement day."
Re 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Mt 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

No one stays in hell for all eternity.
Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

The final place for the unbeliever is the LOF.
Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

In Rev 7, there were some tears wipped away. Now we have more tears being wiped away after the millenium.
Re 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

On this point the scriptures are clear.

What say ye?
-DeaconLew

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There is nothing like studying a man who practices SERPENTRY, while handling the Holy Scriptures deceitfully, and corrupting them. There is a “delusion” which CONFOUNDS verses, uniting them together to produce the mental dementia envisioned.

Note that Rev.20:5 DOES NOT speak about lazy servants. It speaks of MARTYRS killed during the tribulation, who are OVERCOMERS. Nobody is RESURRECTED and sent to hell in this passage. Only the LIVING are cast into hell. (See Matt.5)

Note that Matt.5:26 does not speak of a man BEING IN HELL, but prison. The teaching is a private interpretation, which fails to DISTINGUISH the two teachings within the verse. One concerning PRISON (Matt.18) and the other concerning HELL, which is presented as GREATER punishment. Both will be APPLICABLE doctrinally within the future kingdom where PEOPLE COME BEFORE THE JUDGMENT SEAT of “righteous” rulers! (Matt.19, 12). The law goes forth from JERUSALEM. (Isaiah 2, Micah 4)
It concerns the OFFERING OF GIFTS, which contextually reference JEWS.

Note that Rev.20:15 is 1000 years after the first resurrection (Rev.20:5), which the man used for PROOF there were dead people raised to go into hell. BUT HE DIDN’T. No DEAD went into hell in the verse. It is a FANTASY, which only he can see. He then uses verse 15 to get “another” resurrection of those who were cast in previously (by his mental dementia on the first verse) HAVING THEM RAISED AGAIN unto “eternal life”, after having their names found written in the book of life.

It’s a DISTORTED, SPECULATIVE, FABRICATION.

Those whose names are found in the book of life are those who ENTERED THE KINGDOM in natural bodies and died therein. (Isaiah 65, Matt.25)

The Jesuit priests don’t have anything on these boys.

Originally posted by robycop3:
I think there's a mixup in the definition of hell. Hell is gehenna, the lake of fire...and it's eternal. The KJV calls HADES, the temporary abode of the wicked dead, 'hell', as it does tartarus, the temporary abode of the angels who sinned. "and death and hell(HADES) were cast into the lake of fire."

How can hell be cast into itself?

Check the Greek yourself...the rich man in Jesus' parable was in HADES, while Lazarus was in paradise, or "Abraham's Bosom". Neither was in heaven nor hell.

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Of course we are aware of the "mix-up" with the definition. I believe that the problem is not ignorance to the Greek, but rather ignorance of English. Hades, Gehenna, Sheol, are all (properly) translated, "Hell". The underworld. In the heart of the earth. That underworld (Also metaphorically called the pit and PRISON -Is 24:16-23, Rev 20:7)


You will have to prove to me from scripture that "Gehenna" is the same as the LOF. I believe it is in the heart of the earth.
"The" Greek does not say Hades was cast into Gehenna. We have scrambled our English word, "Hell" so badly and accepted the notion that Hell is the FINAL resting place of the damned (really the LOF), that I think we have translated backwards and forced that definition on the Greek word Gehenna.

"Hell" (the English word) was a word used to describe the place a tailor threw his scraps to be burned and a place where a printer re-melted his typeset. Gehenna was a trash heap. Hell is the perfect translation. The question is. "Where in the world is Hell", or more precisely, "Where ion the world is "Gehenna".

Hell is not cast into Hell. Hell (Sheol, Gehenna, Hades) is cast into the Lake of Fire.


Lacy

Originally posted by carlaimpinge:
Note that Rev.20:15 is 1000 years after the first resurrection (Rev.20:5), which the man used for PROOF there were dead people raised to go into hell. BUT HE DIDN’T. No DEAD went into hell in the verse. It is a FANTASY, which only he can see.

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Carl, Do you really have that much trouble following a line of reason? They came out!

Now watch because this is deep. In order to "come out", they have to be "in"! Do you get it? Go buy yourself a good Texas beverage (A Dr Pepper) and open the bottle. Then drink it. When the Dr Pepper is in your mouth, it is no longer in the bottle.

But (THINK MAN) the fact that it is in your mouth now and the bottle is empty is evidence that the Dr Pepper WAS in the bottle!

Rev 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

What a silly verse if there were none who "WERE" found written in the book.

Lacy

Originally posted by carlaimpinge:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by av1611jim:
I agree Deacon. Totally. There are only TWO ways to get around it and they are
1. Spiritualize the Kingdom.
2. Get out your penknife and dispensationalize the Scripture which contain most of the warnings and totally eliminate all of Jesus' warnings to boot!

Anything else?

In HIS service;
Jim

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Well how bout dat? The CONDEMNATION of their own heresy is described by themselves.

1. UNBELIEF of the Bible concerning the nature of the kingdom
2. UNBELIEF of the Bible concerning the GOD-GIVEN Pauline Principle of Right Division, which the Lord Jesus Christ adhered to himself.

UNBELIEF gets them every single time.
</font>[/QUOTE]Hebrews 4:9-11
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Originally posted by Lacy Evans:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by carlaimpinge:
Note that Rev.20:15 is 1000 years after the first resurrection (Rev.20:5), which the man used for PROOF there were dead people raised to go into hell. BUT HE DIDN’T. No DEAD went into hell in the verse. It is a FANTASY, which only he can see.

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Carl, Do you really have that much trouble following a line of reason? They came out!

Now watch because this is deep. In order to "come out", they have to be "in"! Do you get it? Go buy yourself a good Texas beverage (A Dr Pepper) and open the bottle. Then drink it. When the Dr Pepper is in your mouth, it is no longer in the bottle.

But (THINK MAN) the fact that it is in your mouth now and the bottle is empty is evidence that the Dr Pepper WAS in the bottle!

Rev 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

What a silly verse if there were none who "WERE" found written in the book.

Lacy </font>[/QUOTE]Lacy,

You didn’t follow your bud’s point to DPT.

I know that HELL has plenty of people in it who COME OUT OF IT at the end of the millennium at the GWT. They got in there by DYING NATURALLY (Luke 16) or BEING CAST IN THERE ALIVE at the establishment of the kingdom (Matt.25) and during it. (Matt.5)

No Christian is RASIED to be cast into hell at Rev.20.

What kind of double mindedness is that? The NAMES of those who participated in the FIRST RESURRECTION are ALREADY in the book. The second death couldn't hurt them. IT CONCERNS the "names" of THOSE WHO HAD NOT DIED NATURALLY, who went into the kingdom. (Heb.9)

Come on man. (Diet Dr. Pepper for me please.)

In Christ Jesus,
Carl

Originally posted by James_Newman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by carlaimpinge:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by av1611jim:
I agree Deacon. Totally. There are only TWO ways to get around it and they are
1. Spiritualize the Kingdom.
2. Get out your penknife and dispensationalize the Scripture which contain most of the warnings and totally eliminate all of Jesus' warnings to boot!

Anything else?

In HIS service;
Jim

Click to expand...

Well how bout dat? The CONDEMNATION of their own heresy is described by themselves.

1. UNBELIEF of the Bible concerning the nature of the kingdom
2. UNBELIEF of the Bible concerning the GOD-GIVEN Pauline Principle of Right Division, which the Lord Jesus Christ adhered to himself.

UNBELIEF gets them every single time.
</font>[/QUOTE]Hebrews 4:9-11
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, those HEBREWS, who are UNDER the Mosaic law (2 Cor.3) looking for that kingdom DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION, better manifest faith and patience.

Arminianism by faith and works. (Heb.11)

That is another fine example of these boys rejecting Pauline dispensationalism.

So Paul is a Hebrew under the Mosaic Law in the great tribulation?