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Refuse To Be Baptized?

Baptizo

Baptizo

Active Member
Us Baptists understand that faith is all that is necessary to be saved. We also understand that if faith does not compel an individual to be obedient to the commands of Christ, then we might question whether or not that person is truly saved.

So my question is this - Do you believe that a professing Christian who refuses to be baptized as commanded by Christ can truly be saved?

I understand that there are some who may be physically unable due to a medical condition. I’m talking about a person who is lazy about it and indicating that it is an inconvenience for them and giving other shallow excuses. They have no desire to be water baptized as a way of publicly declaring their faith in Christ.
 
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Ben1445

Active Member
There are some people who, in my experience, due to circumstances are not mindful of it, but when confronted with it are willing and ready to be baptized. An example of this is my own experience. I was saved and no one will convince me otherwise. At the same time, my family picked up and moved across state lines. With a completely new church and no follow-up in the church we were attending when I was saved, it was temporarily forgotten. My parents were not pushing me to do anything because, I believe, that they were not pushing any of our family into motions. I knew what baptism meant. I think that they were leaving it to me to take care of. I find that that is the right way to go about it when knowledge of baptism is present. When at our new church, maybe years later, when my younger sibling was baptized shortly after salvation, I realized that I had not been.

I, myself, would doubt anyone who would willfully deny to obey the first command to believers.
 
John of Japan

John of Japan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Here is the thing. There is no command in the Bible for the believer to be baptized except for Peter's command in Acts 2:38. If one feels that Peter's command is not just to those at Pentecost but to all who believe, fine, but I don't interpret it that way.

Instead, take a look at the command in the Great Commission of Matthew 28, which says (as you know), "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (v. 19). There the command is not to the new believer, but to the soul winner. In other words, it is the soul winner's responsibility to disciple the new convert to be baptized! "Make disciples" ("teach" in the KJV) is a Greek imperative, and the force of the imperative continues through the participle after it, "baptizing." So again, the command is to the soul winner, who should be a discipler, not the new believer.

I know, this is counter cultural for the typical Baptist, even the typical Baptist preacher, but I believe it is accurate to the Scriptures. And as Baptists, one of our distinctives is the Bible as the sole rule of faith and practice, right!

P. S. Edited in: I was a missionary to Japan and baptized many I had won to Christ. But the thing is, the average Japanese is totally clueless about baptism. They are a very ceremony minded people (Buddhism & Shinto), so they need to be taught what it actually means and why it is necessary. This would be true of almost any mission field, I believe. So again, it is the soul winner's responsibility to teach the new convert.
 
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Baptizo

Baptizo

Active Member
Ben1445 said:
I, myself, would doubt anyone who would willfully deny to obey the first command to believers.
Click to expand...

Thank you for emphasizing that point. I certainly don’t want anyone to accuse me of saying that water baptism is necessary for salvation. We’re talking about willful disobedience, not out of ignorance.
 
C

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
John of Japan said:
Here is the thing. There is no command in the Bible for the believer to be baptized except for Peter's command in Acts 2:38. If one feels that Peter's command is not just to those at Pentecost but to all who believe, fine, but I don't interpret it that way.

Instead, take a look at the command in the Great Commission of Matthew 28, which says (as you know), "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (v. 19). There the command is not to the new believer, but to the soul winner. In other words, it is the soul winner's responsibility to disciple the new convert to be baptized! "Make disciples" ("teach" in the KJV) is a Greek imperative, and the force of the imperative continues through the participle after it, "baptizing." So again, the command is to the soul winner, who should be a discipler, not the new believer.

I know, this is counter cultural for the typical Baptist, even the typical Baptist preacher, but I believe it is accurate to the Scriptures. And as Baptists, one of our distinctives is the Bible as the sole rule of faith and practice, right!
Click to expand...

There is the example of the Ethiopian eunuch who said to Philip, look, here's water, what hinders me from being baptized?

The Scripture doesn't tell us all that Philip said when he explained salvation to the eunuch, but the indication is that he knew he must be baptized.
 
B

Ben1445

Active Member
Charlie24 said:
There is the example of the Ethiopian eunuch who said to Philip, look, here's water, what hinders me from being baptized?

The Scripture doesn't tell us all that Philip said when he explained salvation to the eunuch, but the indication is that he knew he must be baptized.
Click to expand...
Baptism was clearly a symbol in the time of Christ. This has a lot to do with why the leaders of the time didn’t follow John and were not baptized by him.
 
C

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Ben1445 said:
Baptism was clearly a symbol in the time of Christ. This has a lot to do with why the leaders of the time didn’t follow John and were not baptized by him.
Click to expand...

The 12 followers of John the Baptist, that had been baptized by John, met Paul in Ephesus.

After they believed what Paul told them about receiving the Holy Spirit, they were water baptized again in the name of the Lord.
 
B

Ben1445

Active Member
John of Japan said:
Here is the thing. There is no command in the Bible for the believer to be baptized except for Peter's command in Acts 2:38. If one feels that Peter's command is not just to those at Pentecost but to all who believe, fine, but I don't interpret it that way.

Instead, take a look at the command in the Great Commission of Matthew 28, which says (as you know), "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (v. 19). There the command is not to the new believer, but to the soul winner. In other words, it is the soul winner's responsibility to disciple the new convert to be baptized! "Make disciples" ("teach" in the KJV) is a Greek imperative, and the force of the imperative continues through the participle after it, "baptizing." So again, the command is to the soul winner, who should be a discipler, not the new believer.

I know, this is counter cultural for the typical Baptist, even the typical Baptist preacher, but I believe it is accurate to the Scriptures. And as Baptists, one of our distinctives is the Bible as the sole rule of faith and practice, right!

P. S. Edited in: I was a missionary to Japan and baptized many I had won to Christ. But the thing is, the average Japanese is totally clueless about baptism. They are a very ceremony minded people (Buddhism & Shinto), so they need to be taught what it actually means and why it is necessary. This would be true of almost any mission field, I believe. So again, it is the soul winner's responsibility to teach the new convert.
Click to expand...
This is the first time I’ve ever heard anyone say anything like this. Views on this topic are mostly loud on the baptismal regeneration side and mostly quiet otherwise. I appreciate your input and will definitely look deeper into this topic further with this post in mind.
 
Aaron

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
Baptizo said:
I understand that there are some who may be physically unable due to a medical condition.
Click to expand...
And there was one guy who was nailed to a cross, too.

But, to answer your question, no. Whether or not some work of grace has been wrought that will yield fruit a little further down the road is not our concern. We cannot consider someone who will not yield to baptism a member of Christ.
 
Aaron

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
Charlie24 said:
There is the example of the Ethiopian eunuch who said to Philip, look, here's water, what hinders me from being baptized?

The Scripture doesn't tell us all that Philip said when he explained salvation to the eunuch, but the indication is that he knew he must be baptized.
Click to expand...
And also Christ's example, who 'needed' no baptism whatever, yielded as a firstfruits, and also as our substitute. Then there's Paul to the Romans referencing baptism as an existential fact of the saints, Romans 6:3-5, as also does Peter in one of the universal epistles, 1 Peter 3:21.
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Baptizo said:
Us Baptists understand that faith is all that is necessary to be saved. We also understand that if faith does not compel an individual to be obedient to the commands of Christ, then we might question whether or not that person is truly saved.

So my question is this - Do you believe that a professing Christian who refuses to be baptized as commanded by Christ can truly be saved?

I understand that there are some who may be physically unable due to a medical condition. I’m talking about a person who is lazy about it and indicating that it is an inconvenience for them and giving other shallow excuses. They have no desire to be water baptized as a way of publicly declaring their faith in Christ.
Click to expand...
Yes …I believe that much of this is maturity in the faith and I fervently believe in a Temporial Salvation which considered the stage of spiritual growth & the level of maturity. You no doubt side with Lordship Salvation.
Aaron said:
And there was one guy who was nailed to a cross, too.

But, to answer your question, no. Whether or not some work of grace has been wrought that will yield fruit a little further down the road is not our concern. We cannot consider someone who will not yield to baptism a member of Christ.
Click to expand...
Aaron, that is a hard & fast commentary that I disagree with. Perhaps you cannot consider it,but what of Christ? Does he think as you do? Can you still sin and be a professing Christian?
 
Aaron

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
Earth Wind and Fire said:
Aaron, that is a hard & fast commentary that I disagree with. Perhaps you cannot consider it,but what of Christ? Does he think as you do? Can you still sin and be a professing Christian?
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What of those who have been excommunicated? There will be some of those who are saved and will be restored, but during the time of their excommunication, we cannot consider them members of Christ. We are to consider them as 'heathens and publicans'.
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aaron said:
What of those who have been excommunicated? There will be some of those who are saved and will be restored, but during the time of their excommunication, we cannot consider them members of Christ. We are to consider them as 'heathens and publicans'.
Click to expand...
Who has the power to excommunicate?
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Aaron said:
And there was one guy who was nailed to a cross, too.

But, to answer your question, no. Whether or not some work of grace has been wrought that will yield fruit a little further down the road is not our concern. We cannot consider someone who will not yield to baptism a member of Christ.
Click to expand...

Then you are making baptism a condition of salvation, which is unbiblical.
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
My grand uncle was excommunicated by the RCC for being involved with masons. Didn’t bother him that some freakin priest in his parish got a bug up his arse so he moved to throw him out of the Church he supported and funded for years. The one that he and his family were members of since their start on this earth. Didn’t bother my uncle one bit, so he joined the Lutheran church and started supporting them financially ( btw he was a successful business man in his community) that was his flippin the bird to the RCC

:Laugh
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Baptizo said:
Us Baptists understand that faith is all that is necessary to be saved. We also understand that if faith does not compel an individual to be obedient to the commands of Christ, then we might question whether or not that person is truly saved.

So my question is this - Do you believe that a professing Christian who refuses to be baptized as commanded by Christ can truly be saved?

I understand that there are some who may be physically unable due to a medical condition. I’m talking about a person who is lazy about it and indicating that it is an inconvenience for them and giving other shallow excuses. They have no desire to be water baptized as a way of publicly declaring their faith in Christ.
Click to expand...
Let me nit-pick a little, I am a Baptist and I believe all that is necessary for salvation is for God to credit our faith as righteousness. If our faith lacks deep commitment to Christ as Lord, then like soil #2, God might not credit it as righteousness and such "faith" would not result in salvation.

Your question, slightly modified, is if a person refuses to be water baptized, is that sufficient evidence to conclude a lack of commitment to Christ as Lord, and therefore the person might not be saved? I answer that question with a yes, barring a reason such as unable to be water baptized due to infirmity.
 
Aaron

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
Earth Wind and Fire said:
My grand uncle was excommunicated by the RCC for being involved with masons. Didn’t bother him that some freakin priest in his parish got a bug up his arse so he moved to throw him out of the Church he supported and funded for years. The one that he and his family were members of since their start on this earth. Didn’t bother my uncle one bit, so he joined the Lutheran church and started supporting them financially ( btw he was a successful business man in his community) that was his flippin the bird to the RCC

:Laugh
Click to expand...
Who cares about your grand uncle or the RCC?

What about excommunication when it's done right? Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. - Matthew 18:15-17
 
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