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"Predestined According to the Purpose of Him Who Works all things According to the Counsel of His Will", Ephesians 1:11.

Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
atpollard said:
You accuse me of "nonsense". I plead "guilty as charged":

1 Corinthians 1:18-25 [ESV]
For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart."

Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.


2 Corinthians 4:3-6 [ESV]
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.


PS: Since we argue so hard, I wanted to take a moment to say "Thank You" and God bless you. Indifference is the enemy, we are brothers engaged in a friendly family squabble over "non-essential things" (our opinions will not change God's mind). ;)
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It is a good thing one does not have to be a member of MENSA as I know I would not make it.

I could not have said it better, we are brothers in Christ. It is good to sharped the iron every once in a while.

One thing we are not is Indifferent. This quote?? has been credited to Aristotle?? "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

I would suggest that this verse suits us quite well.
2Ti_4:2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.

I have changed the word {3rd person to 1st person} that J. Piper wrote in his book [Five Points Towards a Deeper Experience of God’s Grace pdf pg 14]

"My great desire is to deepen my experience of God’s grace and to honor Him by understanding and believing His truth revealed in Scripture. I pray that I am open to changing any of my ideas which can be shown to contradict the truth of Scripture."
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
@Silverhair



I will respond to that:

By Gods Power Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
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Note what the verse says BF.

Psa 110:3 Your people will volunteer freely in the day of Your power; In holy array, from the womb of the dawn, Your youth are to You as the dew.

That is free will BF. How do you not see that.

If that is the best you can do then you are woefully short of your objective.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
@Silverhair



The Gospel is the Power of God causing the believing.
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And there it is in clear text BF. You have to add your philosophy to make it work for you.

But you have another problem, if God make people believe then why does He not make all people believe as that is His desire?

You should stop digging that hole you are in as it just keeps getting deeper.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
kyredneck said:
As usual, you 'note' dishonestly.
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What was dishonest KY?

It is historical fact what augustine did and it is still the same philosophy that we see coming from the C/R teachings.

You say it is dishonest then prove it. Other than that it is just you blowing the same stale wind.

Just another anti-Biblical rant on your part
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
Note what the verse says BF.

Psa 110:3 Your people will volunteer freely in the day of Your power; In holy array, from the womb of the dawn, Your youth are to You as the dew.

That is free will BF. How do you not see that.

If that is the best you can do then you are woefully short of your objective.
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Yes it does say that. Gods Power, which the Gospel is, makes His People, the elect willing. You seem to underestimate Gods power
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
And there it is in clear text BF. You have to add your philosophy to make it work for you.

But you have another problem, if God make people believe then why does He not make all people believe as that is His desire?

You should stop digging that hole you are in as it just keeps getting deeper.
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The elect believe according to Gods Power Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

How do they believe stated in this scripture ?
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Also those who believe according to the working of Gods power in Eph 1:19 explains why they believed in Vs 13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Immutable and Eternal Will of God

“So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.” {Rom.9:16} “Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.” {vs.18} To ascribe conversion to the freedom of mans will is to exempt the creature from being under the power of God; for if he be able to convert himself, or to refuse, so as not to be converted; then conversion is under his own power. If it depend upon the will of the creature, then the will of man is the cause why God willeth this or that. This would bring the will of God under the will of man; as if God should say, ‘I will convert that man if he will’ – ‘I have willed nothing’ – or, ‘my will is mutable’ – ‘my will shall wait on your will, and change as oft as yours shall.’ If the will of God should not determine all things, the will of God should not be the first cause. If there be two first causes, then there are two beginnings or more, and so more gods than one. If God gives power, and leaves it to man’s will, then God hath not determined what shall be done, or else his purpose is changeable. If the cause why God chooseth me {and not another} is because I will, then it is not according to his will. {Eph.1:11} If God’s will be not the cause, you deny the freedom of God’s will, and make the will of man the cause of his being saved. If God by his omnipotent power inclines the wills of men, whether he will {as is above proved} then he hath them more in his power than man hath; if so, his decreeing is the cause, and necessity follows; for the will of the creature is not the cause of the necessity of things, because mans will is bounded by God’s decree; and as the first weight or wheel moves the second, so the first cause moves the second. He whose salvation God willeth, he must of necessity be saved, because God lacks no power, nor wisdom to accomplish his will. Man cannot resist an Almighty Power; {Eph.1:19,20,3:20;} therefore God cannot be hindered of his will; if he should will anything he could not obtain, he would be imperfect, and so not God. If he can obtain it, but will not, how doth he will it? “Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.” {Isa.46:10} To grant that man hath power to hinder God’s will, is to grant that he hath power to hinder his working, and so to frustrate God’s counsel, and make him a liar; yet nothing will satisfy some, unless this be granted. If there were any good, of which God were not the cause, how is the praise and glory of it to be ascribed to him? “To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.” {Eph.1:6} To whom be all the praise & honor, now and forever. Samuel Richardson {Divine Consolations, Part One, 1649}
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
The elect believe according to Gods Power Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

How do they believe stated in this scripture ?
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BF you are not reading the text. His great power toward those who believe. They already believe BF.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Also those who believe according to the working of Gods power in Eph 1:19 explains why they believed in Vs 13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
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BF you have got to take of the glasses that are distorting your vision.

The people believe BF. Step back a few verses

Eph 1:15 For this reason I too, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which exists among you and your love for all the saints,
Eph 1:16 do not cease giving thanks for you, while making mention of you in my prayers;
Eph 1:17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him.

Paul is praying that they will continue to grow, be sanctified, as they walk it the newness of their faith.

These are the saints at Ephesus Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus:

If you continue to pull verses out of context you will never come to a proper understanding of the word of God.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Immutable and Eternal Will of God

“So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.” {Rom.9:16} “Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.” {vs.18} To ascribe conversion to the freedom of mans will is to exempt the creature from being under the power of God; for if he be able to convert himself, or to refuse, so as not to be converted; then conversion is under his own power. If it depend upon the will of the creature, then the will of man is the cause why God willeth this or that. This would bring the will of God under the will of man; as if God should say, ‘I will convert that man if he will’ – ‘I have willed nothing’ – or, ‘my will is mutable’ – ‘my will shall wait on your will, and change as oft as yours shall.’ If the will of God should not determine all things, the will of God should not be the first cause. If there be two first causes, then there are two beginnings or more, and so more gods than one. If God gives power, and leaves it to man’s will, then God hath not determined what shall be done, or else his purpose is changeable. If the cause why God chooseth me {and not another} is because I will, then it is not according to his will. {Eph.1:11} If God’s will be not the cause, you deny the freedom of God’s will, and make the will of man the cause of his being saved. If God by his omnipotent power inclines the wills of men, whether he will {as is above proved} then he hath them more in his power than man hath; if so, his decreeing is the cause, and necessity follows; for the will of the creature is not the cause of the necessity of things, because mans will is bounded by God’s decree; and as the first weight or wheel moves the second, so the first cause moves the second. He whose salvation God willeth, he must of necessity be saved, because God lacks no power, nor wisdom to accomplish his will. Man cannot resist an Almighty Power; {Eph.1:19,20,3:20;} therefore God cannot be hindered of his will; if he should will anything he could not obtain, he would be imperfect, and so not God. If he can obtain it, but will not, how doth he will it? “Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.” {Isa.46:10} To grant that man hath power to hinder God’s will, is to grant that he hath power to hinder his working, and so to frustrate God’s counsel, and make him a liar; yet nothing will satisfy some, unless this be granted. If there were any good, of which God were not the cause, how is the praise and glory of it to be ascribed to him? “To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.” {Eph.1:6} To whom be all the praise & honor, now and forever. Samuel Richardson {Divine Consolations, Part One, 1649}
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What point are you trying to make here BF?

I can not help it if Samuel Richardson if he has misunderstood scripture. You can see his error in his own words, "for if he be able to convert himself, or to refuse, so as not to be converted; then conversion is under his own power."

1] we do not save our selves BF
2] we do have to trust in the Son of God before we are saved
3] if we choose to reject Him then we are not saved

Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I know this is hard for you to accept but it is biblical. The TULIP/DoG is a false teaching that has lead many astray.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
What point are you trying to make here BF?

I can not help it if Samuel Richardson if he has misunderstood scripture. You can see his error in his own words, "for if he be able to convert himself, or to refuse, so as not to be converted; then conversion is under his own power."

1] we do not save our selves BF
2] we do have to trust in the Son of God before we are saved
3] if we choose to reject Him then we are not saved

Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I know this is hard for you to accept but it is biblical. The TULIP/DoG is a false teaching that has lead many astray.
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You know the point being made.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Again:

How do they believe stated in this scripture ? Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
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Do you think if you repeat it enough times then it will be true. Sorry BF that will not help you.
 
C

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
kyredneck said:
You're a liar and a false accuser.



My views are strictly Biblical, not pagan.
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Augustine was influenced by the great pagan philosopher, Plato, and John Calvin took what Augustine started and took it to it's conclusion.

Followers of Calvin took it even further to what we have today, a theology from pagan roots.
 
C

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Charlie24 said:
Augustine was influenced by the great pagan philosopher, Plato, and John Calvin took what Augustine started and took it to it's conclusion.

Followers of Calvin took it even further to what we have today, a theology from pagan roots.
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That's how Satan works, as proof from the Garden in the very beginning.

He mixes in a few lies with the truth and expands on it over time.
 
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