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How do Fundamental Baptists view other Baptists then?
- Thread starter JesusFan
- Start date
My personal experiences with them would be many seemed to be Kjvo, and into separation so much that even non IBF Baptist churches were very suspect
and not just separation but secondary separation
Alan Dale Gross
Active Member
These 5 items listed below (with 'no, no , no , no & yes' as their respective answers),
along with 'Authority in *Baptism' not listed yet, (which can be explained to the best of my ability later),will pretty much cover what could be termed a Historic 'Fundamental' Baptist. Those kind of churches would be properly structured with:
their churches were organized according to the Jerusalem church,
possessing the Same Government (each member has one vote, including the Pastor),
same Officers (NOT 'Apostles'),
the same class of Members (saved, by exemplifying empirical 'proof'),
exactly the same Ordinances, Doctrines and Practices (except MAYBE for the length of skirts; to show the ankle, etc./
)as the churches of the Lord Jesus that He Built and Promised to Continue to Build and Edify,
as The Holy Spirit Supernaturally Dwells within each one, as self-governing Scriptually *Baptized assembling bodies.
Each of these individual bodies, under their Head, Jesus Christ, (just like 'the husband' is the head of each 'wife')
are Commished to Carry Out the Great Commision of The Lord God of the Universe, our Savour, Jesus Christ.
These are the only 'kind' of 'churches' which Jesus also Promised to Preserve on Earth, until He Returns Again, to the Earth (TODAY????)
I would be O.K. with that....
Those folks would Stand for "The Faith Once Delivered to the Saints", and with their disclosed identity, above,
we would entirely assume that they are, to a man, 5-Point Doctrine of Gracers,
with enough of the Truths Listed Here at this Link, to make each brother 'Worth Their Weight in Doctrine'.
Ref.:
STICK WITH THE STUFF! WHAT DO THE BAPTISTS BELIEVE?
things that most Baptists believe Our Baptist views Not trying to even say that these are you all's views. Just thought these brothers did a great job on this 'stuff'. STICK WITH THE STUFF! II. WHAT DO THE BAPTISTS BELIEVE? When questioned as to his belief, Charles H. Spurgeon used to...
www.baptistboard.com
These are they of whom God's Word says, "The World is Not Worthy." Then, we are getting into (all caps) "BAPTIST" territory.
Digging deeply, soberly, and selflessly into The Bible always gives us The Home Court Advantage.
You CAN SAY WHAT YOU WANT, BUT THEY ARE "THE CHILDREN OF THE FLAME".
...
How do Fundamental Baptists view other Baptists then?
"While in Cotton Grove, Collins and several Baptist ministers asked Graves to comment on the ecclesiological errors that appeared to be triumphing in west Tennessee. When Baptists in the community heard that Graves would be speaking, a small meeting quickly turned into a large rally. The rally was held at the Cotton Grove Baptist Church on June 24, 1851."Though no definitive numbers were recorded, the meeting was apparently well-attended and was quite an enthusiastic event. When Graves rose to address the crowd, he opened by speaking on John 17 and the unity of the body. After lashing out against the pedobaptists, Methodists, and the Campbellites, he turned his attention to the proper mode of baptism*. At the end of his speech, Graves asked those present to examine five questions:
"Those present voted an enthusiastic no on each of the questions except the fourth. For all intents and purposes the affirmation of the Cotton Grove Resolutions launched the Landmark movement in the Southern Baptist Convention. Walter Shurden in his book Not a Silent People, did not fail to notice the importance of what was implied by the Cotton Grove Resolutions:
"Though the term Landmarkism did not become the catchword of the movement until J. M. Pendleton used it in his 1854 tract An Old Landmark Re-set,[33] the movement gained its first adherents and initial support at the Cotton Grove Baptist Church on June 24, 1851..."
The Cotton Grove Resolutions.
07/26/2017
Joe Early, Jr.
Interesting read and backstory, brother. Thanks for the insights and history of the Landmark Baptist brethren. Trained in schools in the North, much of the events in Tennessee and in the SBC are "foreign" to me
I grew up in Central NY - never knew about Landmark Bap - until I arrive in Germany (US Arm) I visited such a church! (the story of that one is long and extensive!) But that is when I first was given a copy of "The Trail of Blood" and informed about closed communion and their other doctrines. In Fact, at one time we had a member here on BB who was a member of that church. (small world) Off hand, I do not remember who that was - or if he is even currently on the BB.
I was trained under "Big B" Baptists and many were labeled "Landmarkers" because of that. But none were officially connected with that group. But proudly Baptist in heritage. We were in the north, so none of the "trace baptism back to John the Baptist" silliness. We could reflect on Baptist heritage back to 1600's England where the foundations of our fundamental Baptist churches originated (by name).
My answer is no because true fundamentalists will not waver on the faith and will insist those he walks with don't either.
We tend to evaluate believers in various ways but God has a simple measurement by which he gauges one who professes his salvation. It is under a phrase he uses 42 times in the scriptures and it makes sense when one thinks about it. It is "the faith." What does God think about what you think about the faith. Here are some excerpts.
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
1Ti 1:2 Unto Timothy, [my] own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, [and] peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
1Ti 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
1Ti 3:13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace [be] with thee. Amen.
Here is the first mention
Ac 3:16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
Here is the last mention:
Re 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
It will benefit one to read all these 42 verses. The use of 42 is not a coincidence.
Ga 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
justapewfiller
New Member
An honest question from a neophyte, on an experience with separation that I have not understood for some years. Admittedly my lack of ability to understand has bugged me for some years. So please explain it like I'm thick as a brick, dumb as a rock, stupid as a stump, etc. Because I want to understand..
I was with a GARBC Baptist church. A local SBC church reached out about partnering for a local ministry opportunity that would last a couple of days.
The two churches were of roughly the same size. Our deacons even indicated the statements of faith between the two churches lined up. They actually thought well of the SBC church. They thought the proposed ministry was a worthwhile event, nothing wrong with it. But, still the answer was "no" on grounds of separation.
I asked, "Do you believe they are not Christians? Do you think they believe so differently that they are going to hell for it?"
The answer was they believed them Christians and saw nothing in their statement of belief they felt would send them to hell.
But, when I pressed further asking what exactly what exactly they saw that led to the decision - I never really got an answer..
In cases like this, does it just boil down to "We don't know them?" or "They are of the wrong denomination?" or is it that the other group is "Christian, and are 98% the same kind of Christian as us, but that 2% is too much of a difference?" or something else.
I guess what I'm looking for is I do understand separation in many cases. But, in cases like this - I admit - I don't understand it.
I was with a GARBC Baptist church. A local SBC church reached out about partnering for a local ministry opportunity that would last a couple of days.
The two churches were of roughly the same size. Our deacons even indicated the statements of faith between the two churches lined up. They actually thought well of the SBC church. They thought the proposed ministry was a worthwhile event, nothing wrong with it. But, still the answer was "no" on grounds of separation.
I asked, "Do you believe they are not Christians? Do you think they believe so differently that they are going to hell for it?"
The answer was they believed them Christians and saw nothing in their statement of belief they felt would send them to hell.
But, when I pressed further asking what exactly what exactly they saw that led to the decision - I never really got an answer..
In cases like this, does it just boil down to "We don't know them?" or "They are of the wrong denomination?" or is it that the other group is "Christian, and are 98% the same kind of Christian as us, but that 2% is too much of a difference?" or something else.
I guess what I'm looking for is I do understand separation in many cases. But, in cases like this - I admit - I don't understand it.
GARBC is an association of independent churches with zero "control". Voluntary. No demand. Maybe a loose fellowship in the state or support of colleges/seminaries.
SBC is a convention of independent churches with slightly different aspects of "control". Strong bureaucratic hierarchy. Strong state government and control of colleges/seminaries. Decisions are made at various levels, including local church, regional associations, and the Southern Baptist Convention level, with a degree of centralized authority.
AI summarizes : In essence, while both groups share core Baptist beliefs, Independent Baptists prioritize local church autonomy and may exhibit more diversity in their practices and interpretations, while Southern Baptists operate within a larger denominational structure with a more unified, though still diverse, approach.
SBC is a convention of independent churches with slightly different aspects of "control". Strong bureaucratic hierarchy. Strong state government and control of colleges/seminaries. Decisions are made at various levels, including local church, regional associations, and the Southern Baptist Convention level, with a degree of centralized authority.
AI summarizes : In essence, while both groups share core Baptist beliefs, Independent Baptists prioritize local church autonomy and may exhibit more diversity in their practices and interpretations, while Southern Baptists operate within a larger denominational structure with a more unified, though still diverse, approach.
Let it go brother. When it comes to guarding your testimony, it's better to be safe than sorry.
I don't have a problem, as an individual, interacting with another fellowship.
I grew up and was saved in a GARBC church. I am currently in a SBC church. As far as control - I see absolutely no difference between GARBC and SBC. We are just as independent as any other Independent Baptist church. The biggest difference between us and non-SBC is the way we support missions.
Did you know that back in the 90's or so there was a split in the GARBC? At the time the GARBC had an approval system for colleges, mission boards, and social agencies. The actual approval was accomplished by the Council of 18. BUT who was on that Council - many were Presidents of the mission boards, Colleges and social agencies! Another words , the chicken house was being guard by the foxes. Thus an amendment came up that anyone on the Council of 18 must be the pastor of a local affiliated church. That ideal was voted down. (Personally, I thought that was a great ideal) They came up with a compromise - the GARBC would no longer have an approval system for those organizations. The reasoning was that it should be up to the local church to decide. REALLY! How is an individual local church supposed to check up on an organization! -- Its just like trying to buy something. How is one individual suppose to fully check out something? There is a magazine that reports on products. Their approval system is that the magazine accepts no advertising - to prevent any bias in making decisions. Granted, the SBC may control the seminaries - but by doing so - they can insure they are operating in a Biblical system.
X- I agree with you, I would have no problem working with other Evangelical churches to spread the Gospel. In fact, in our town - there are two minister groups - one that accepts any church - including RC. (In fact at their national day of Prayer - they included the RC's and Mormons. Our group only includes evangelical churches. Our group is called OPEC - Oneida Pastors Evangelical Council. Our Motto - "Give me oil in my lamp, keep me burning!"
By the way - that group that split from the GARBC is the Independent Baptist Fellowship of North America.
I went to their National Association meeting (Near Utica, NY) last year - and there were only about 50 in attendance.
Did you know that back in the 90's or so there was a split in the GARBC? At the time the GARBC had an approval system for colleges, mission boards, and social agencies. The actual approval was accomplished by the Council of 18. BUT who was on that Council - many were Presidents of the mission boards, Colleges and social agencies! Another words , the chicken house was being guard by the foxes. Thus an amendment came up that anyone on the Council of 18 must be the pastor of a local affiliated church. That ideal was voted down. (Personally, I thought that was a great ideal) They came up with a compromise - the GARBC would no longer have an approval system for those organizations. The reasoning was that it should be up to the local church to decide. REALLY! How is an individual local church supposed to check up on an organization! -- Its just like trying to buy something. How is one individual suppose to fully check out something? There is a magazine that reports on products. Their approval system is that the magazine accepts no advertising - to prevent any bias in making decisions. Granted, the SBC may control the seminaries - but by doing so - they can insure they are operating in a Biblical system.
X- I agree with you, I would have no problem working with other Evangelical churches to spread the Gospel. In fact, in our town - there are two minister groups - one that accepts any church - including RC. (In fact at their national day of Prayer - they included the RC's and Mormons. Our group only includes evangelical churches. Our group is called OPEC - Oneida Pastors Evangelical Council. Our Motto - "Give me oil in my lamp, keep me burning!"
By the way - that group that split from the GARBC is the Independent Baptist Fellowship of North America.
I went to their National Association meeting (Near Utica, NY) last year - and there were only about 50 in attendance.
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Think that we as Christians should be following the method of the Lord jesus here , as those are for Him are not against us, as all of the redeemed are part of same family of God