Think that the biblical view of salvation would include a profession of faith is Jesus as Lord and savior, but such a profession would be evidenced by some fruit, such as a changed mindset regarding sin, God, church bible etc, and some type of good works unto others , so not just "faith alone" talk after having been really saved , but a life to some degree reflecting a change
John MacArthur's Lordship Salvation, anyone?
John's big error: The command to "take up your cross" was made to disciples, not lost people (Matt. 6:24). And I don't teach anyone to just say "Save me Jesus" (nor did Hyles, to be fair to him). There must be a full understanding of the Gospel, and a trusting in Christ as Savior.
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John R. Rice and the KJV
- Thread starter John of Japan
- Start date
This is straight Lordship Salvation, right out of The Gospel According to Jesus. However, this thread is not about soteriology, so please refrain from going down this road.
37818
Well-Known Member
Of course, that makes no sense.
The Romans Road,
Romans 3:10.
KJV, As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
ASV, as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one;
Romans 3:23.
KJV, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
ASV, for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;
Romans 5:12.
KJV, Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
ASV, Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned:
Romans 6:23.
KJV, For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
ASV, For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 5:8.
KJV, But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
ASV, But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 10:9.
KJV, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
ASV, because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:
Romans 10:13.
KJV, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
ASV, for, Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
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It is the preaching of the gospel, not Bibles, that is the power of God to save sinners, I am KJV only but I know that God does not send KJVs to the heathen to get them saved, he sends missionary men and families. They typically learn the languages of those to whom they are sent and when they get several converts they start a church. A church can be started by the missionary without a Bible they can read but not without converts. So the first order is converts. One gets converts by preaching the gospel.
The scriptures are not profitable to the unsaved, but for these things.
2 Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
I think often times incredibly simple and logical things get confused in theological rhetoric and nonsense.
4 point Calvinists, Dispensational and free grace theology
I thought "easy believism" was another term to describe free grace theology.
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
Unless "free grace" means something different where you are than the fact that salvation is by God's grace, and that grace is free, then I don't think easy believism describes free grace theology. I have always seen easy believism used to refer to the idea that people are saved by saying the words of a prayer, or going to the front at a meeting.
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
Grace is free. or it is not grace.
But its not really free. Christ paid the cost in full.
Easy believism. or a licentious belief. teaches that one can claim to have faith,. because they said some sinners prayer. or go to church or are a part of a family of Christians. But they have not repented.. They still live in sin.. they are hearers of the word not doers. As James spoke of in James 2. And Jude spoke if in his epistle.
But JoJ, you brought up the subject and it did involve a question about Lordship Salvation.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't free grace advocates use a "sinner's prayer" when presenting the gospel? Is there a nuance difference that i'm missing here?
i read that John R. Rice held to the mechanical dictation inspiration of scripture. Is this still the common view among IFB churches or was this unique of Rice?
37818
Well-Known Member
You read an apostate lie.
What Dr Rice taught is explained by Rice in his book, "Our God- breathed Book - The Bible."
More of that apostate lie.
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Actually, I simply commented on some poor evangelism that Hyles followers had done. I didn't mention LS until JesusFan did. He brought up LS in Post 37, not me. I consider it legitimate to talk about an aberrant method of soul winning on this thread, but not to make the thread about the doctrine of LS when that is nowhere in the OP. I have had so many threads hijacked here--haven't you?
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Actually, in his book Our God-Breathed Book the Bible, Rice had two whole chapters on why he did not believe in mechanical dictation. The charge that he did teach MD was brought by faculty members of Bob Jones U. who refused to endorse the book. Their charge stemmed from his willingness to use the term "dictation" as used by other theologians such as Louis Gaussen. But he denied clearly that the process of inspiration was "mechanical," and taught rather that it was a process depending 100% on the Holy Spirit and 100%
As for fundamentalists, we generally hold to the same verbal plenary doctrine of inspiration held by almost all evangelicals. The exceptions in fundamentalism would be the radical followers of Peter Ruckman and Gail Riplinger, who hold that the KJV is inspired and inerrant like the originals were.
P. S. Rice taught that the "mechanical dictation" charge was a red herring used by liberals to mock verbal plenary inspiration.
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Eternally Grateful
Active Member
What does paul say in romans? Whoever calls on the name of the lord.
We all have to recieve the gift of God. in repentance.
Many call this a sinners prayer. calling out to God in faith.
What happens is, some say this prayer and never have repented.
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
KJV perfect is a major issue
It is in the english language, that itself causes many flaws and misinterpretations. As it is impossible to translate a greek bible word for word in english (the greek is too complex)
I'm sure you answer this in other threads, but are you KJV prefer? What do you think of the New King James Version?
You could call me KJV preferred if you wish, but I think all the fuss on English translation issues is missing the point. I tell my students, "Don't argue about the Bible and try to defend it. It's not a museum piece, but a sword. Go out and stab someone with it!"
My focus is much more on missionary translation than English translations, and I teach two seminary courses on that. In my own translation work (www.lifelinebible.org) I am not afraid to check the NKJV, and believe it to be an accurate translation, especially since it was based on the KJV, which is extremely accurate. (I have compared both to the Greek NT.)
But that's all I'm going to say about it here, lest we hijack the thread.