No person can come to Christ by their own freewill ! 2

The scripture plainly teaches that none [by nature] will come to God in Christ Jn 5:40 cp Rom 3:11

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Scripture teaches that the unwillingness to come to God in Christ is founded in man's inability to do the same Jn 6:44,65

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Notice Vs 44 states this inability is only remedied by the Fathers drawing, which is nothing short of the Power of God. The drawing power of God which imparts Spiritual life and strength/ability, changes the unwillingness to come to causing to be willing to come Ps 110:3

3 Thy people[The elect/Sheep] shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

The person now has a willing mind to come to Christ, the person has been chosen by God to approach Ps 65:4

Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

Thats the drawing in Jn 6:44, its God causing by His drawing power.

A main reason why the natural man cannot believe in Christ or come to Christ in Faith is because by nature man is a unbeliever, for God has concluded all men naturally, as sinners in unbelief Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded[locked in] them all[jew and gentile] in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

This is why for man to believe in Christ it takes the Power of God, God must work Faith in us, thats also called His having Mercy on a man. 9

Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The drawing of the Father of some to come to/believe in Christ is actually the Father giving them to His Son Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Again Jn 6:37

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

This is the only way a man can come to believe in Christ, it can be only by the will of the Father, not mans so called freewill.

See the natural mans will as he is, is dead, spiritually dead in sin, hes in a hopeless lost state, and not only cannot come, but will not come /believe Jn 5:40, and Rom 3:11.

The word given in Jn 6:65 and giveth in Jn 6:37 is the same word δίδωμί and it means:

to give one to some one as his own: as the object of his saving care, to give one to someone, to follow him as a leader and master,

God is said to have given certain men to Christ, i. e. to have disposed them to acknowledge Christ as the author and medium of their salvation, and to enter into intimate relations with him, hence Christ calls them 'his own' (τὰ ἐμά, John 10:14).

So we have God causing them to be willing in the day of His Power Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. 9

Man has no freewill by nature to do anything spiritual towards Salvation, because by nature we are dead and without any hope ! Eph 2:12

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

The only ones who will come to Christ/believe in Him for all Salvation will be His Sheep Jn 10:26. And its not by their own freewill nor anything native or natural within them, but by the Father having given them to the Son Jn 6:37,65 which speaks to Election. The Father by drawing them to Christ, actually, by His Spirit of Grace, causes them to come or believe in Christ, hence all credit, praise, honor must go to God for a person believing in Jesus Christ for Salvation. See Phil 1:29

For unto you it is given on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 9

There must be a Divine Intervention before one can believe or come to Christ, a giving of a new mind and heart. Mans heart and mind by nature is enmity against God and not subject to God, and cant be ! Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Also while unregenerate, by nature we are children of wrath as others, and the mind fulfills the lust of the flesh Eph 2:3

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature[physical origin] the children of wrath, even as others.

Folks this is how we are by natural physical birth, our wills belong to the flesh. Nothing short of a New Nature, New beginning is needed, and that's the Divine Intervention. 9

No one can come to Jesus unless capacitated by the Father; that is, no one has the ability to receive Jesus unless the Father gives it to him.

John 6:44,65

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

This defeats the false notion of man having a freewill to receive Jesus Christ as in Jn 1:12

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:10

Brightfame52 said:

No one can come to Jesus unless capacitated by the Father; that is, no one has the ability to receive Jesus unless the Father gives it to him.

John 6:44,65

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

This defeats the false notion of man having a freewill to receive Jesus Christ as in Jn 1:12

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:10

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Free will is something given to men by God, but men can lose it themselves by culpable apostasy. That's not an argument against the Father drawing all believers to himself, but it is a statement that you should be weary of using Jesus's remarks specifically addressed to apostate Jews (who had already apostatized from the law of Moses and were therefore not Jesus's sheep), as a generalization to be applied to "all men." Only some men will fall into the category of self-condemned pharisees. It's a terrible condition to be in, for the worst of men.

cjab said:

Free will is something given to men by God...

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Scriptural support please.

cjab said:

Free will is something given to men by God, but men can lose it themselves by culpable apostasy. That's not an argument against the Father drawing all believers to himself, but it is a statement that you should be weary of using Jesus's remarks specifically addressed to apostate Jews (who had already apostatized from the law of Moses and were therefore not Jesus's sheep), as a generalization to be applied to "all men." Only some men will fall into the category of self-condemned pharisees. It's a terrible condition to be in, for the worst of men.

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I never heard o none of his you saying

Wesley Briggman said:

Scriptural support please.

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Deut 30 is the proof text that "Free will is something given to men by God." Then (i.e. upon the gift of grace) is the choice to obey or disobey absolute in God's sight. BUT, grace may not be given by God to all men; for as Roms 1 says, God gives culpable men over to wrath (e.g. especially Pharaoh who was always a Nazi tyrant and kept on hardening his heart as God foreknew). Jesus adopts pretty much the same positions in John 3:16-21, and further on, vis-a-vis the pharisees, who are given over to wrath by God. The key thing to note is just how the wicked the pharisees were. They were not lost sheep but satan's sheep. So the perversity (love of untruth) of some doesn't preclude God's willingness to allow grace to the rest, which results in free will.

The OP verses do not say what Calvinism claims. No one seeks God does not say no one ever seeks God, the Calvinist rewrite.

John 5:40 simply indicates some people are unwilling to put their faith in Christ. It does not teach on one is able to trust in Christ.

Yes, it is true, no one can put their trust in Christ unless drawn, attracted, by the Father. People are attracted by the lovingkindness shown to us by the gospel of Christ.

And Yes, certainly no one can trust in Christ unless God allows it, meaning God has not hardened their heart.

John 6:44 does NOT say the drawing is "irresistible grace." Pure fiction manufactured by people, not God.

Psalm 110:3 does NOT say the "irresistible grace" causes a willingness to serve.

Psalm 65:4 does NOT say "irresistible grace" causes a person to believe the gospel. Total invention, reading in an Old Covenant verse what it does not say to manufacture support for false doctrine.

Van said:

The OP verses do not say what Calvinism claims. No one seeks God does not say no one ever seeks God, the Calvinist rewrite.

John 5:40 simply indicates some people are unwilling to put their faith in Christ. It does not teach on one is able to trust in Christ.

Yes, it is true, no one can put their trust in Christ unless drawn, attracted, by the Father. People are attracted by the lovingkindness shown to us by the gospel of Christ.

And Yes, certainly no one can trust in Christ unless God allows it, meaning God has not hardened their heart.

John 6:44 does NOT say the drawing is "irresistible grace." Pure fiction manufactured by people, not God.

Psalm 110:3 does NOT say the "irresistible grace" causes a willingness to serve.

Psalm 65:4 does NOT say "irresistible grace" causes a person to believe the gospel. Total invention, reading in an Old Covenant verse what it does not say to manufacture support for false doctrine.

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When one is drawn by God and or Christ that's salvation that's regeneration and the effectual call!

Brightfame52 said:

When one is drawn by God and or Christ that's salvation that's regeneration and the effectual call!

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More manufactured false doctrine by reading into John 6:44 what is not said or suggested.

Van said:

More manufactured false doctrine by reading into John 6:44 what is not said or suggested.

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Nah sorry its the truth. Regeneration is a work began in you. So is the drawing, the word metaphorically means

. metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel: John 6:44

Thats the Spirits power leading the born again child of God Rom 8 14

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Brightfame52 said:

Nah sorry its the truth. Regeneration is a work began in you. So is the drawing, the word metaphorically means

. metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel: John 6:44

Thats the Spirits power leading the born again child of God Rom 8 14

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

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You can post "taint so" till the cows come home, Calvinism simply reads into John 6:44 what anyone can see is not there.

cjab said:

Deut 30 is the proof text that "Free will is something given to men by God." Then (i.e. upon the gift of grace) is the choice to obey or disobey absolute in God's sight. BUT, grace may not be given by God to all men; for as Roms 1 says, God gives culpable men over to wrath (e.g. especially Pharaoh who was always a Nazi tyrant and kept on hardening his heart as God foreknew). Jesus adopts pretty much the same positions in John 3:16-21, and further on, vis-a-vis the pharisees, who are given over to wrath by God. The key thing to note is just how the wicked the pharisees were. They were not lost sheep but satan's sheep. So the perversity (love of untruth) of some doesn't preclude God's willingness to allow grace to the rest, which results in free will.

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(Deu 30:1 KJV) And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call [them] to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,

(Deu 30:2 KJV) And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;

(Deu 30:3 KJV) That then the LORD thy God will...

(Deu 30:4 KJV) If [any] of thine be driven out unto the outmost [parts] of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee,...

(Deu 30:5 KJV) And the LORD thy God will...

(Deu 30:6 KJV) And the LORD thy God will...

(Deu 30:7 KJV) And the LORD thy God will...

(Deu 30:17 KJV) But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;

(Deu 30:18 KJV) I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, [and that] ye shall not prolong [your] days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.



A Sermon (No. 52)

Delivered on Sabbath Morning, December 2, 1855, by the

REV. C. H. Spurgeon

At New Park Street Chapel, Southwark.

"And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life."—John 5:40.

This is one of the great guns of the Arminians, mounted upon the top of their walls, and often discharged with terrible noise against the poor Christians called Calvinists. I intend to spike the gun this morning, or, rather, to turn it on the enemy, for it was never theirs; it was never cast at their foundry at all, but was intended to teach the very opposite doctrine to that which they assert. Usually, when the text is taken, the divisions are: First, that man has a will. Secondly, that he is entirely free. Thirdly, that men must make themselves willing to come to Christ, otherwise they will not be saved. Now, we shall have no such divisions; but we will endeavour to take a more calm look at the text; and not, because there happen to be the words "will," or "will not" in it, run away with the conclusion that it teaches the doctrine of free-will. It has already been proved beyond all controversy that free-will is nonsense. Freedom cannot belong to will any more than ponderability can belong to electricity. They are altogether different things. Free agency we may believe in, but free-will is simply ridiculous.

Freewill is often equated with choice. We make choices with no thought of consequences. All choices have consequences! God's children who are seeking to be bond-servants, from my experience, look back over their lifetime of choices only to realize that their choices followed the path through life that was directed by God's will for them! Praise God!

Examples of men exercising their "freewill":
(Jdg 4:7 KJV) And I will draw unto thee to the river Kishon Sisera, the captain of Jabin's army, with his chariots and his multitude; and I will deliver him into thine hand.
Sisera had no idea he was subject to God's will. He thought he was simply fulfilling his military duty.

(Jon 1:2 KJV) Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me.(Jon 1:3 KJV) But Jonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD, and went down to Joppa; and he found a ship going to Tarshish: so he paid the fare thereof, and went down into it, to go with them unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD.

Jonah exercised his "freewill" to flee to Tarshish. How did that workout?(Jon 1:17 KJV) Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Saul was exercising his "freewill": Act 9:1 KJV) And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,(Act 9:2 KJV) And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

God has no regard for Saul's "freewill"" Act 9:3 KJV) And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven Act 9:4 KJV) And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

(Jas 4:13 KJV) Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain Jas 4:14 KJV) Whereas ye know not what [shall be] on the morrow. For what [is] your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.(Jas 4:15 KJV) For that ye [ought] to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.(Jas 4:16 KJV) But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.

Van said:

You can post "taint so" till the cows come home, Calvinism simply reads into John 6:44 what anyone can see is not there.

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Once Drawing begins, you are saved and converted to Christ.

Van said:

You can post "taint so" till the cows come home, Calvinism simply reads into John 6:44 what anyone can see is not there.

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Also the word draw means to persuade or win over

metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel: John 6:44 (so in Greek also; as ἐπιθυμίας ... ἑλκουσης ἐπί ἡδονάς, Plato, Phaedr., p. 238 a.; ὑπό τῆς ἡδονῆς ἑλκόμενοι, Aelian h. a. 6, 31; likewise 4 Macc. 14:13; 15:8 (11).trahitsuaquemquevoluptas, Vergil, ecl. 2, 65); πάντας ἑλκύσω πρός ἐμαυτόν, I by my moral, my spiritual, influence will win over to myself the hearts of all, John 12:32. Cf. Meyer on John 6:44; (Trench, § 21, Compare: ἐξέλκω.)

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Brightfame52 said:

Also the word draw means to persuade or win over


SNIP

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You can post "taint so" till the cows come home, Calvinism simply reads into John 6:44 what anyone can see is not there.
There is not need to redefine the meaning according to Calvinist doctrine, that is simply reading Calvinist doctrine into the text.

Here is an objective viewpoint:
66tn Or “attracts him,” or “pulls him.” The word is used of pulling or dragging, often by force. It is even used once of magnetic attraction (A. Oepke, TDNT 2:503). (Net Bible footnote)

Without God's revelation of the gospel, no one is able to trust in Christ Jesus, and when people do hear and understand the gospel, they are attracted to Christ because of His lovingkindness in dying for the lost. And of course, if God does not allow a person to trust in Christ, they cannot, such as when God hardens their hearts, Romans 11:7.

If we take a look at Jeremiah 31:3 we see two ways the verse is translated, one, God draws (attracts) people with His eternal loving kindness. The alternate view nullifies the attraction by making the second clause redundant. God loves with eternal lovingkindness, therefore He continues to extend His lovingkindness. Obviously this rendering is simply an effort to eliminate the inspired evidence God attracts people with His lovingkindness.