Would you support a Just War from the Bible then?

Ben1445 said:

You cut off the quote. You know.

Why not? You think wars are declared by neighbors?

List them.

Your opinion here reminds me of all the sermons I have heard about Samson disrespecting his parents when God was directing the events. Judges 14.
It just doesn’t seem right to say God is orchestrating the events and I want no part of it or that what God is doing is wrong for me to participate in.

Boil it all down it’s just sours like you are saying yes God is doing it but it’s wrong.

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I never said what God is doing is wrong. You misunderstand my position.

God has often used ungodly men, and their wars, to bring judgment upon nations. God doesn’t need Christian’s to be involved in wars or the killing that accompanied it.

Another example is the death penalty. God allows the state to use the power of the sword, the death penalty.

Christians, however, should not support the death penalty based on Paul’s teachings in 1 Timothy that God demonstrated mercy toward Paul as an example for future Christians to follow.

Paul was a murderer, by his own admission. The worst of sinners. God has commanded us to follow His example with Paul and show mercy to the worst of sinners, even murderers like Paul. You cannot show mercy and support the killing of another.

Like I stated earlier, the Church has debated these issues from the beginning. Nothing we are saying here hasn’t been already argued for 2000 years.

It’s ok if we disagree

Peace to you

Darrell C said:

If you mean the Church going to war, no.

If you mean Christian soldiers performing their duties in avenging evil, absolutely. The more believers we have in the military, the less chance of war altogether.

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Christians are not commanded to avenge evil. If you can show me scripture that commands Christians to avenge evil, I’ll change my mind.

God has stated “vengeance is Mine”, and never repay evil for evil.

Peace to you

JesusFan said:

We were under obligation to stop Hitler, or else all of us would have had our concentration camp experience

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Christians were not under obligation by God to “stop” Hitler by violence.

Peace to you

canadyjd said:

I never said what God is doing is wrong. You misunderstand my position.

God has often used ungodly men, and their wars, to bring judgment upon nations. God doesn’t need Christian’s to be involved in wars or the killing that accompanied it.

Another example is the death penalty. God allows the state to use the power of the sword, the death penalty.

Christians, however, should not support the death penalty based on Paul’s teachings in 1 Timothy that God demonstrated mercy toward Paul as an example for future Christians to follow.

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You can’t have mercy if you don’t follow the laws. If everyone gets mercy, nobody is getting mercy. Nobody is getting any kind of justice therefore there is no justice to give mercy from.

canadyjd said:

Paul was a murderer, by his own admission. The worst of sinners. God has commanded us to follow His example with Paul and show mercy to the worst of sinners, even murderers like Paul. You cannot show mercy and support the killing of another.

Like I stated earlier, the Church has debated these issues from the beginning. Nothing we are saying here hasn’t been already argued for 2000 years.

It’s ok if we disagree

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We can disagree.

canadyjd said:

Peace to you

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Have a great weekend.

Darrell C said:

If you mean the Church going to war, no.

If you mean Christian soldiers performing their duties in avenging evil, absolutely. The more believers we have in the military, the less chance of war altogether.

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Huh, were you in the military?

JesusFan said:

We were under obligation to stop Hitler, or else all of us would have had our concentration camp experience

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I knew US GI’s who liberated the Nazi concentration camps…in Dachau, and they took it upon themselves to shoot the Nazi guards. Was that an obligation or the direct result of seeing evil personified?

Salty said:

Killing is acceptable - Murder is not

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How about execution?

Earth Wind and Fire said:

How about execution?

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IF the crime committed fits that punishment

canadyjd said:

Christians were not under obligation by God to “stop” Hitler by violence.

Peace to you

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How else to stop the Nazi war machine? Don't think Chamberlains approach did much to stop Hitler

Ben1445 said:

You can’t have mercy if you don’t follow the laws. If everyone gets mercy, nobody is getting mercy. Nobody is getting any kind of justice therefore there is no justice to give mercy from.

We can disagree.

Have a great weekend.

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This isn’t about what the state does in enforcing laws.

The issue is how Christians should follow the example given to us by God, as clearly explained in 1 Timothy, to show mercy toward the worst of sinners, even murderers like Paul.

Very tough to follow this teaching. Few, imo, can separate themselves from the world, the desire to seek punishment for wrongdoing, to understand the depth of what God has taught us.

Bottom line, we all deserve the death penalty instantly for our rebellion against God. Thank God He shows mercy instead.

Have a good weekend as well.

Peace to you

JesusFan said:

How else to stop the Nazi war machine? Don't think Chamberlains approach did much to stop Hitler

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I trust God is able to stop the Nazi war machine without Christians killing to avenge evil.

Christians are called to different from the world.

Peace to you

canadyjd said:

I trust God is able to stop the Nazi war machine without Christians killing to avenge evil.

Christians are called to different from the world.

Peace to you

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God chose to use soldiers to fight in Old Testament times though

JesusFan said:

God chose to use soldiers to fight in Old Testament times though

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God continues to use soldiers to fight today.

That really is the issue, isn’t it? Does God want Christians, that are commanded to live in peace with all men so far as we are able, to enlist as soldiers and go kill people.

Peace to you

canadyjd said:

God continues to use soldiers to fight today.

That really is the issue, isn’t it? Does God want Christians, that are commanded to live in peace with all men so far as we are able, to enlist as soldiers and go kill people.

Peace to you

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Is this a question you have to answer for yourself or someone else?

I think it is a personal question that each person will have a different answer to because of their own personal circumstances.
I would say each person must find the answer for themself and hold themselves accountable to what God’s plan for their lives is.
As with every other aspect of life, we all have different responsibilities. There is not a one size fits all answer.

canadyjd said:

God continues to use soldiers to fight today.

That really is the issue, isn’t it? Does God want Christians, that are commanded to live in peace with all men so far as we are able, to enlist as soldiers and go kill people.

Peace to you

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John the Baptist did not tell the Roman soldiers to walk off their posts and quit the army though

JesusFan said:

Would that be acceptable under certain situations or not?

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(Rom 13:1 ESV) Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
(Rom 13:2 ESV) Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.
(Rom 13:3 ESV) For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval,
(Rom 13:4 ESV) for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.
(Rom 13:5 ESV) Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
(Rom 13:6 ESV) For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing.
(Rom 13:7 ESV) Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

On the battlefield, under intense fire, if you as a Christian, determined your enemy was a Christian, would you not shoot him?

JesusFan said:

God ordered the Jews to wage war in order to clear out of the Promise Land to them the pagans and heathens

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Do you think that's what's going on in Palestine right now? Do you support the expansionist Zionist ideology of 'Greater Israel' that Netanyahu is advancing? Do you think they should go to war to take Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian territory, among others?

Aaron said:

Do you think that's what's going on in Palestine right now? Do you support the expansionist Zionist ideology of 'Greater Israel' that Netanyahu is advancing? Do you think they should go to war to take Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian territory, among others?

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A Zionist around every corner.
I didn’t know that is what we were talking about.
Here I am thinking about Sergeant Alvin York like we are talking about conscientious objectors.
Who knew it was about the Jews. It’s always the Jews. Alvin York must have been a Zionist too. You can’t hold public office without being one. The world is certainly closing in on all the people who hate the Jews. Next thing you know, you will be in camps if you are not a Zionist.

(Thick satire)

Ben1445 said:

Is this a question you have to answer for yourself or someone else?

I think it is a personal question that each person will have a different answer to because of their own personal circumstances.
I would say each person must find the answer for themself and hold themselves accountable to what God’s plan for their lives is.
As with every other aspect of life, we all have different responsibilities. There is not a one size fits all answer.

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I agree that every person must answer to their own conscience on this issue.

Understanding the commands of our lord Jesus should be a great benefit to those desiring to get it right

Peace to you

Wesley Briggman said:

…
On the battlefield, under intense fire, if you as a Christian, determined your enemy was a Christian, would you not shoot him?

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If a Christian decides it’s ok to kill the “enemy” in war, I suppose that’s the possibility they will face.

Peace to you

JesusFan said:

John the Baptist did not tell the Roman soldiers to walk off their posts and quit the army though

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We don’t know everything John the Baptist said

We do know Jesus said to forsake everything else and follow Him. We do know the Apostle Paul stated in 1 Timothy that God demonstrated mercy toward him (a murderer) as an example future Christians were to follow. We do know scripture says vengeance belongs to God and we, as Christians are to strive to live in peace with all.

Peace to you

canadyjd said:

If a Christian decides it’s ok to kill the “enemy” in war, I suppose that’s the possibility they will face.

Peace to you

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like when David killed the Giant?

canadyjd said:

We don’t know everything John the Baptist said

We do know Jesus said to forsake everything else and follow Him. We do know the Apostle Paul stated in 1 Timothy that God demonstrated mercy toward him (a murderer) as an example future Christians were to follow. We do know scripture says vengeance belongs to God and we, as Christians are to strive to live in peace with all.

Peace to you

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One can be a pacifist or a soldier, as God would have each one be faithful in their own convictions on this issue

Aaron said:

Do you think that's what's going on in Palestine right now? Do you support the expansionist Zionist ideology of 'Greater Israel' that Netanyahu is advancing? Do you think they should go to war to take Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian territory, among others?

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Think muslims who model after Muhammed directly want to kill off all of the Jews and us to for good measure