Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
He sent Jonah to Nineveh
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Dispensationalism,
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I know a few who think they jew was saved by law.. not grace, but they are a small minority of those who believe in dispensational teachingIs it possible to add a poll to this thread at this point.
I think it would be helpful for the discussion to know how many people believe that salvation is different in different dispensations.
Hebrews should teach anyone that all, no matter when they lived, have salvation by faith.
So now that everyone knows how they should answer the question, I think it would clear up what kind of discussion this is.
No it's not, but here is the wonderful Grace of our Christ,
He came only for the lost sheep of Israel, but He in His great mercy never turned down the faith of a Gentile.
We see it over and over again in the Gospels, Christ healing and saving the Gentiles, though He came only for the lost sheep of Israel.
If you noticed in Acts, the Jews with peter were "astonished" they shocked when they see the Gentiles being saving under Peter's preaching.
This is the mystery Paul spoke of as being hidden from man in the past, that God would also save those of the Gentiles.
Col. 1:26-28
"Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:"
God called Israel to take the Gospel to the Gentiles, and came to save Israel for that purpose, that was hidden from man until after Christ left this earth.
He also allowed Ruth, Rahab, and a mixed multitude of Egypt to join the Israelites.He sent Jonah to Nineveh
Balaam delivered the words of the Lord to Balak. But Balaam was killed by the Israelites in conquest.
God uses and allows all people.
Cyrus was not Jewish. God used him.
Nebuchadnezzar was not Jewish. God sent him personal messages in dreams and made him to know who God is.
But to the Jews are committed the oracles of God. By the keepers of the Cannon, we have Scripture and through their line a Savior.
God has always loved His creation and made the world before the fall in such a way that man would seek God.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
He also said Israel would have to wait 400 years because the sin of the Amorite was not yet complete.. It was not until any chance of repentance was gone that he acted. Just like int he floodHe also allowed Ruth, Rahab, and a mixed multitude of Egypt to join the Israelites.
Balaam delivered the words of the Lord to Balak. But Balaam was killed by the Israelites in conquest.
God uses and allows all people.
Cyrus was not Jewish. God used him.
Nebuchadnezzar was not Jewish. God sent him personal messages in dreams and made him to know who God is.
But to the Jews are committed the oracles of God. By the keepers of the Cannon, we have Scripture and through their line a Savior.
God has always loved His creation and made the world before the fall in such a way that man would seek God.
many got that wrong belief from the original Scofield bible study notes, taht did seem to indicate under OC were saved by their obedience and good works to the LawSalvation has always been by grace through faith..
In any dispensation this is true.
thats where most people misunderstand the dispensational mindset. they believe we thought people were saved different ways. This is not true
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I have seen this accusation many timesmany got that wrong belief from the original Scofield bible study notes, taht did seem to indicate under OC were saved by their obedience and good works to the Law
I have that scofield bible. and I tried to research this to see if it was true. I never saw this in anything he said.
Also if you research him, he denies this to be the case.
I am a Progressive Dispensationalist, not a Traditional Dispensationalist. I believe the New Covenant saints are grafted into the promise of the Everlasting Covenant. Thus I am a Gentile descendant of Abraham. We had at least one dispensation, or manner in which God dealt with humanity, before the giving of the Law of Moses. We certainly had the dispensation under the Law of Moses. Now we are in the dispensation under the Law of Liberty. When Christ returns, we will be under the dispensation of Christ's earthly reign. And then the eternal dispensation.
Thanks!I have seen this accusation many times
I have that scofield bible. and I tried to research this to see if it was true. I never saw this in anything he said.
Also if you research him, he denies this to be the case.
A misunderstanding of Scofield's position arose from a poorly worded note on John 1:17 in the 1909 edition of the Scofield Reference Bible. The note stated that during the "Dispensation of Grace," "legal obedience" was "no longer" the "condition of salvation," leading some to wrongly infer that it once had been.
The editors of the 1967 edition of the New Scofield Reference Bible clarified the note to align with Scofield's actual theology, stating that the law was insufficient for salvation and that salvation prior to the cross was by faith based on Christ's atonement.
There does seem to be some though even today stating the jews have still a Covenant relationship with Yahweh, like the Law still saved them, while we gentiles get saved under new CovenantI have seen this accusation many times
I have that scofield bible. and I tried to research this to see if it was true. I never saw this in anything he said.
Also if you research him, he denies this to be the case.
I am a Progressive Dispensationalist, not a Traditional Dispensationalist. I believe the New Covenant saints are grafted into the promise of the Everlasting Covenant. Thus I am a Gentile descendant of Abraham. We had at least one dispensation, or manner in which God dealt with humanity, before the giving of the Law of Moses. We certainly had the dispensation under the Law of Moses. Now we are in the dispensation under the Law of Liberty. When Christ returns, we will be under the dispensation of Christ's earthly reign. And then the eternal dispensation.
That is very much correct, Van! If I'm reading you correctly.
All through the Old Testament Scripture the Gentiles were grafted into Covenant with Israel, those who believed in the God of Israel.
It's no different in the New Testament with us Gentiles being grafted into their New Covenant.
We Gentiles are the descendants of Abraham by faith.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Yes. One may be in this chatroom. I have met him in other chatrooms.. But he also has alot of weird beliefs so..There does seem to be some though even today stating the jews have still a Covenant relationship with Yahweh, like the Law still saved them, while we gentiles get saved under new Covenant
Are there any examples of anyone under the old covenant who were justified under it by leaving it?Thanks!
A misunderstanding of Scofield's position arose from a poorly worded note on John 1:17 in the 1909 edition of the Scofield Reference Bible. The note stated that during the "Dispensation of Grace," "legal obedience" was "no longer" the "condition of salvation," leading some to wrongly infer that it once had been.
The editors of the 1967 edition of the New Scofield Reference Bible clarified the note to align with Scofield's actual theology, stating that the law was insufficient for salvation and that salvation prior to the cross was by faith based on Christ's atonement.
It is a matter of dead faith vs living faith. If a person under the old covenant denies following the law, he shows that he is not following God. If one under the law accepts following the law he must still recognize that he is not able to keep the law.
This is why OT saints are “just,” living by faith, the same as the NT “just shall live by faith.
It is also said in the NT that faith without works is dead. If the faith that is had does nothing in a persons life his faith is as vain (empty) as the man himself.
James could be accused of the same “heresy” as Scofield, in that he says works accompany faith. If you view it differently and say that works are necessary for faith or that works are necessary for salvation you are saying something close enough to confuse the listener into a misunderstanding of what the Bible says.
In short, there is no way, as a person under the mosaic covenant, to say that you refuse to follow the Law of God and still follow God. In this way you cannot look at Scofield and say that he believed in works salvation for the old covenant.
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Let me add to Part 2 "that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in," referring to the end of this dispensation of Grace, the Church Age. It triggers the Second Coming of Christ, with Israel having already been prepared for their destiny, "all Israel shall be saved."
God is working separately with the Gentiles and Israel. this will be further discussed as we move on.
Part 3 Dispensationalism
We've briefly covered the dispensations that divide time showing us how God has dealt differently with man according to the available knowledge of His salvation in the dispensation in which man has lived.
We've discussed one of the main points of Dispensationalism in the literal interpretation of the Scripture, until it becomes obvious it's not literal.
We've turned the attention to Israel, how God has dealt differently with them vs. the Gentiles throughout the dispensations in time.
We've discussed the original calling of Israel and their preparation for that calling by being given the Law to prepare them for their coming Messiah, to announce Him to the world.
We've discussed how Israel failed in their calling, BUT God has not changed His mind on that calling of Israel, and "all Israel will be saved," according to the apostle Paul.
Now let's look at the history of Israel from the time they rejected their Messiah to the present day and state of Israel.
Because Israel rejected and killed their Messiah, God took away their temple and nation, dispersing them to the 4 winds of the earth.
When the disciples pointed out the glory and beauty of the temple, Christ said, "there shall not be one stone left upon another." He was referring to Micah 3:12,
"Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest."
In 70 ad the Romans completely dismantled the temple leaving the location "plowed as a field" with no ruins and no way for Israel to know the exact location of the temple some 2000 years later. They are guessing from the description in Scripture that mountain where the temple once stood is where the Dome of the Rock now sits.
There is only one reason that after almost 2000 years of being scattered all over the world, Israel became a nation again, God promised faithful Abraham his (natural) seed would inherit the land promised to him. It's the only reason that God has promised "and all Israel shall be saved."
This is the first distinction promised only to Israel, "and all Israel shall be saved." He didn't make this promise to the Gentiles. And we know from the context of Scripture, Paul makes it clear that Israel is his countrymen the Jews, the natural descendants of Jacob, where the 12 tribes originated.
Now let's take a Biblical view into the next dispensation in our near future, the dispensation of the Kingdom Age. Let's read from the Scripture who inherits the land promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel). All of Israel has now been saved and restored to their future glory, but only for the 1000 years of the Kingdom Age. We will discuss this in Part 4.
Ezekiel 40-48 is the vision given to Ezekiel, he see's the new temple, the glory of the Lord returning to the temple (remember Ezekiel was the one who witnessed the departing of the glory of the Lord earlier in a past dispensation) and the future dividing of the land among the 12 tribes of Israel.
I won't post all of Ezekiel's vision in chps. 40-48, only the future dividing of the land, you can read the rest at your leisure. It's worth your time! You will get a look into the future Kingdom Age as Ezekiel describes what he see's and what is happening as the Lord reveals it.
Notice that in chapter 45 a portion of the land is divided to "an oblation unto the Lord." The Lord gives Ezekiel the measurements and location of this "holy portion" and another portion for the Priests to live and minister. Remember this is during the Millennial Age.
In chp. 47 Ezekiel see's a river flowing from the new temple, with the measurements in size and depth of the running water, with trees growing on both sides.
Then beginning in 47:13 we see that the Lord has divided the land among the 12 tribes.
47:13-14
"Thus saith the Lord God; This shall be the border, whereby ye shall inherit the land according to the twelve tribes of Israel: Joseph shall have two portions.
And ye shall inherit it, one as well as another: concerning the which I lifted up mine hand to give it unto your fathers: and this land shall fall unto you for inheritance."
In vs. 15 and beyond the exact measurement of land for each tribe is given, on through chp. 48.
If you follow the measurements given by the Lord, all of Syria, all of Jordan, all of the Arabian Peninsula, to the river Euphrates, is now Israel.
Now here's what most don't know or haven't considered.
47:22-23
"And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.
And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord God."
The Strangers that are to be given a portion by Israel are the Gentiles. But notice the land officially was given by promise to ethnic Israel. God has included the Gentiles in the division of the land. this was forbidden under the Law of Moses but now is a new dispensation and the knowledge of the Lord is ever increasing.
We will discuss what is in store for Israel during this 1000 years, and the glory God will fulfill in them as we continue in Part 4.